What is up PartnerUp!?
Uggghhhh. It’s been a heckuva start to the market this year. Lot’s of tough news in tech land and we’ve been working double time to help where we can… But, last week we were two days late on publishing episode 96.
And today we’re pushing this one live past our normal 5am ET Tuesday drop deadline.
Mea culpa – my fault! But rest assured we’re back on track as we eye episode 100 and bigger than ever baby!
This show was a #nofilter sitdown with Isaac and I after an exhausting 14 hour day together with 14 calls. No. Lie. We’re in the grind. We feel you out there.
So we sat back, sifted through our favorite social stories of the week, ranted on “experience gets exhausted,” shared some of our “learning out loud” nuggets, AND of course dropped the launch of Together Network!
Which, let’s be real, this is what makes it all worth it!
We’re stoked to welcome Market[ing] Together with Logan Lyles and Sell[ing] Together with Jessie Shipman as the first two shows on the network! Check ‘em out here https://partnerhacker.com/podcasts/ and subscribe you and your marketing team and sales teams to their own streams.
MAJOR shoutout to Logan and Jessie. They are true stars and we’re so happy to partner with them to bring them to you and the world!
Subscribe & Listen On:
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- Or literally, anywhere you get your podcasts. Seriously. Ask Alexa: “Alexa, play "PartnerUp the Partnerships Podcast” and magic…
Jared Fuller 00:00
Hey what is up, partner up? We're back. We're after hours tonight. So for the dozens of you that are listening, watching on YouTube, I know there's 1000s of people out there that listen to this. But those of you on YouTube UNC Isaac and I nursing our wounds after a heck of a Monday. What's up, Isaac?
Isaac Morehouse 00:28
Yeah, I've got the dim, you know, sort of the low evening lighting going on. Got a glass of wine here. This is this is after hours. This is a whole new thing. I don't know we might. Who knows what might be birthed from this?
Jared Fuller 00:42
Well, we definitely have a bunch of stuff to talk about. Holy cow 2023 is off to the races will stay out of the world news because every week something gets crazier. I did not have balloon on my 2023 Bingo card. You know, so like, there's just always stuff that out there, but which we won't get into that. I want to talk a little bit about we've been putting in like the grind. So like the past few weeks, Isaac and I and the whole entire part of our team will shout out to Adam Carolla who just joined full time Hope, who just hopped on board full time as well and some other people that we can't talk about yet. Like, gosh, we've doubled the team size, right, man.
Isaac Morehouse 01:24
We absolutely have. But I want to go back to the balloon here. Here's why not because I want to talk about world events. But you said that, and I realized, I don't even really know like, what this is or what's going on, because I don't follow the news. But here's how here's how I knew about it. Here's how things get to me. I have all these various text threads with different friends and buddies and stuff. And everybody just kind of shares funny stuff that they come across. And you know, I I've seen like, a half a dozen memes about a balloon from my buddies on these various threads. And I sort of pieced together. Oh, there's some kind of like Chinese balloon that's over us airspace or something like this. And it's kind of a controversy, but everybody's also just making jokes about it. I'm getting all these memes. That's, and there's something about that is really interesting. It's insightful. I don't want to take it too far. But it's insightful. You know, world or drowning in information. And where news is everywhere all the time, and everything's news and everything's breaking. And everyone's trying to make it serious. And none of the news organizations are very trustworthy, let alone the people that are redistributing news from third parties and doctoring images, and like, you can't trust anything anymore. Half the time. It's like parody accounts that are trolling you, you just you don't know what's what. Here's what ends up making it through what makes it through the funniest, most clever stuff that makes it into your circle of trust. What my buddies share with me, the funny meme of five versions of what and this is true of sports news as well. Like, that's how I find out about Kyrie Irving getting traded to the Dallas Mavericks, because my buddies share joke tweets about it, the funniest takes, that's the stuff that breaks through. To me, it's clever, it's original, it's funny, and it made it into somebody that I trust, and they shared it with me, and that's why I click on it and take the time. And I think there's something really interesting about that. So the only reason I knew what you're talking about with the balloon was from some jokes that were texted to me,
Jared Fuller 03:27
that's how we've, you know, built built the movement. And we'll come back to that in a second. That's actually a topic for today. So like, what Isaac and I are going to attempt to do as we ramble through this one. And is shout out to some people that have given us some inspiration and some things to chew on as we're like grinding through that, you know, kickoff time of the year because it's like, Alright, we just have the holidays. Annual Plan start to come into place. And then now everyone's figuring out how to drive revenue together, how to like build pipeline, how to, you know, come out the other side of this mass layoff and the chaos the world that we find ourselves in. All of you out there, you've been given us lots to put in, you know, lots of energy to put in the extra hours. And we want to talk we want to teach the new stuff first, or we want to get into
Isaac Morehouse 04:18
the new stuff, because I'm so excited. So first, okay, yeah, so we're dropping to
Jared Fuller 04:24
we'll hold on hold on, why are we dropping this? This this go back November, right? What do we do in November?
Isaac Morehouse 04:29
The LX feel like Summit.
Jared Fuller 04:32
Alright, so uh, we actually talked, I talked to a handful of people today that have been following the podcast, but hadn't heard of pls. And I'm like, wait, okay, so if you hadn't heard of it, pls. summit.com partner led everything. It was an amazing five day event. And we had partner led startup. So for startup founders and VCs partner LED product for product leaders and partner people, partner led marketing. So that way you can live in market together, do all this great stuff with your partners, like why would you ever do something alone? It's so stupid To me in hindsight now we had partner led sales day so co selling together with people like Brent Adamson speak on that day author of the Challenger sale and partner led success day. Well, that was just version one of the plan, right, Isaac? Absolutely. That was just step one pls was there was actually a secondary vision behind this, which I feel like I sold you on eventually because we're doing it. Yeah,
Isaac Morehouse 05:21
I mean, you sold me on the vision then you always have a harder time selling me on the execution
Jared Fuller 05:31
Hey, but we pull it off, we pull it off, we got the bag that arised approver here pull it off. Were
Isaac Morehouse 05:38
when you told me you're like look, Pl x. This is not a this is not just an event, partner, lead ex partner that everything in these in these five days representing these five functions of a business. This isn't just for this event. This is to kick off where we're taking the conversation at Parker hacker we are all about conversation. We want to start and participate in and encourage and fanned the flames of conversations about the partnerships moment about partner led everything and those conversations have primarily been among partnerships people and PL x was the fresh shot across the bow to take those to these other departments and Jared told me you know, we got to do after pls we got to launch a whole network of separate streams of content that are for those departments that are buy in for salespeople, marketing people success people talking about to your point drive revenue together about driving revenue together with partners. So that was like the you know, the seed was planted and we've been kind of trying to figure out and working this and we're dropping in fact you'll probably see it the same day. This goes live which is tomorrow because we're doing this very last minute together network we're launching the first two podcasts part of the partner hacker media empire now selling together
Jared Fuller 07:13
they're not just they're not just podcasts, though their shows their packages,
Isaac Morehouse 07:17
yep, their shows, with newsletters with their own content streams of you know information on a weekly basis in a newsletter, podcast, and basically building out the conversation. For salespeople with selling together for marketing people with marketing together, we have Logan Lyles, an absolute beast on the marketing end, who is leading the marketing together, podcasts and brands and Jesse Shipman on selling together so huge shout out if you want to, if you go to, if you go to partner hacker.com I think it's like slash podcast or whatever. We've got all the various podcasts there and we have pages for each of those. And this is for if you're a partnerships person, share these with your sales people with your marketing people. This is these podcasts are for them partner up is for partnerships, people primarily, although other people are, of course, welcome to these conversations. But these are for the people who are in the sales trenches and in the marketing trenches.
Jared Fuller 08:17
100%. So this is so cool. I'm so excited to like be working with Logan, I listened to b2b growth that he was the host of for hundreds of episodes with our buddy James Carberry over at sweet fish, so shout out to them. I mean, we shared some of our plans with, you know, folks like that, that have seen media come and go podcast and brands come and die and b2b and to have the support and like to be able to work with someone like Logan, or even talk to James or like, you know, Anthony Kannada, we were kind of sharing some of the vision with him back in the beginning. And everyone's like, This is amazing. Because as a media company, what we get to do for you is like, look, we talk about all this partnership stuff all the time. But co selling is completely irrelevant to product integrations, right. Like in terms of the persona, not for you or me, right, like Isaac, and I could geek out on that in the same conversation. In fact, I was doing that today with the CTO of a tech company, right? It was geeking out integrations with them, but like CO selling wouldn't have been appropriate for that CTO. That's the problem. Partnerships isn't the department. It's a strategy for every single department. And I've said that partner hackers a movement company, not not just a media company, you know what, let's take the conversation to them. And in my seven partner, please for 2023 I ended with the seventh partner, please. So this episode a couple episodes back. I ended with like, look, partnerships person, everyone right now is dying to drive revenue, they are dying. Like I literally mean that in the corporate sense, right? Like being fired his death in the corporate world, like that relationship is dead. Like, you will probably not be friends with that company ever again. It's over, right? That's what the market is trying to do. So for us as partner pros. What we have to do is we have to go to our marketing team and how If the market together, we have to go to our sales team and help them sell together, we have to go to our success team and help them retain together, if you will, our product team and help them build together. Am I sensing a theme? I'm sensing a theme. That's exactly what we're going to do. So we're going to be bringing this network of shows straight to you. And we're starting with selling together with Jesse Shipman. Og partner hacker, first outside contributor to partner hacker daily before we even had a site super excited to work with Jessie. She's a absolute beast, founder of fluency X Apple enablement. So she's gonna be having conversations with CROs VPs of sales, sales managers that are figuring out how to activate, you know, partnerships from the inside on the front line. And then Logan is going to be talking with VPs of marketing CMOS on how to you know, take partner data and orchestrate it across an Account Based Marketing Program get in Blake Williams Are you know, buddies from, you know, the partner land that can kind of speak across the aisle. So first two shows drop in right now go to partner hacker.com/podcast. There's my pitch, but get excited, folks, we're gonna be bringing you content in 2023 that is specifically designed to help you help your counterparts in other departments. That's how much we love you. And that's how much effort we put into this thing.
Isaac Morehouse 11:06
So it's funny, if you're, if you're hanging around partnerships, people it can feel like, okay, you know, we all kind of know how to do all these various things, how we can help sales and marketing and success. But when you when you look at the other departments, there's no playbook. I mean, there's barely a playbook for partnerships, people that's kind of been being created the last couple years, spearheaded by people like you, Jared, when you launched your podcast and others who have done podcasts and created content, like it's a pretty new thing. I have a playbook for partnerships, people, let alone a playbook for how to utilize partnerships and other departments. So sales teams, it's like right now everyone's just sort of, well, if there's anything to do with partners, I'm sure my partnerships person will just handle that. It's like, No, you have to have your entire team thinking about this, building it into their everyday activities. Same with marketing, you have to bake this in from the ground up, you know, it's not just something you wait for the partnerships person to come to you and be like, Hey, here's a few things that involve partners. It's just something a little bit different. There's something there, you know, your thing, Jared, you got to find somebody who's been to your promised land, if you haven't, most partnerships, people have not been a CMO.
Jared Fuller 12:21
We've been working on this for a long time. We're not announcing the other shows in the network yet. And then partner hacker.com will do a pre announcement on this is that the vision is that will relaunch that eventually, where you can basically have those five feeds and kind of like a share link and then boom, you're like, Okay, you're only seeing, you know, content about marketing together, right. So that's very much for like that marketing persona from a partner lens. And that's even intentional to like words matter. There's a fantastic episode with James Currier and effects where he talks about all the different network effects. One of the ones that we discussed was, how language is a network effect. And we don't realize by putting partner first before our counterparts, it just it's so hard to talk to them, but it's like, hey, let's talk about marketing together. Wait, okay. I'm first now I'm the market I'm first let's talk about selling together. Okay, selling, that's first I, I like that not partnering, it's not about so selling together. You know, I think we have a lot of big opportunity around all of this to shape that conversation and help generate those Congress, because the partner pros to get through this year and kick butt are going to be the ones that help their marketers help their sellers help their success teams do these things together, right? You can't make it about you. And your department has to be about the other departments.
Isaac Morehouse 13:33
So you're, it's it's after its partner hacker after hours, which means we're kinda like free flowing, we're off script. I want to ask you, I want to have some fun and like, what, what are we when we don't even notice it out there in the world lately? Like, what do you what do you what's been coming across your feed? What kind of fun conversations have you seen, and we just kind of riff on those. So I want you to, I want you to get started. Give me something fun that you've come across? Well, I
Jared Fuller 14:01
started the episode off, and I bear friends that I'd come back to the movement phrase to have longtime listeners have heard me kind of stick to that word, and, you know, kind of use that as my guiding light on what we're trying to accomplish here is like, Look, we're not trying to create a movement for you listeners, we're trying to help you create a bigger movement, right? Like, across department. Like that's our mission right now, our big plan for this year to because that's what you have to do. I mean, it's your job, so we have to help you. I saw song drum. Song Graham was the founder of Terminus, I think, I think you could say category creator of Account Based Marketing and I mean, if it's not him DemandBase you know, it's kind of close, but I think he really took it to the the new persona new level. So sinogram was big, you know, a longtime b2b marketing influencer, and he's done the thing, right. He's created a company that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And he had this post the other day, he's like, what's the difference between a movement and a community and I But that was right up my alley. I was like, Oh, that's so because we're not partner Decker is not really a community. I mean, shout out to partnership leaders, you know, friends with them, I've always been friends with them. We've played complementary roles. And I'm like, that's the difference, right? Like, I feel like we're a movement versus a community. Like, we have to be one step ahead of producing things like as a media company, we have to produce stuff as community, you don't have to produce stuff, you have to, like, make those really deep one to one connections, like a meetup group for like, 15 people in a city where it's like, Ah, I'm not alone. Like, I have a friend, I can text now. Right? With us, it's not necessarily the same not to say those benefits can't happen. But what Socrates said was, the goal of a movement is to help drive the conversation. So everyone is talking about it.
Isaac Morehouse 15:50
Yes, he's, he's Oh, my word. He says the goal
Jared Fuller 15:53
of a community is to facilitate the conversation in a safe place. And I'm not sure that I could really pick that apart. I'm like, I think that's, that's right. And in, in safe place, I can replace safe with intimate, and I mean, intimate and like, the purely, like, platonic, you know, true sense that, you know, sometimes those one on 130 minute conversations, you know, that happened in person, they changed the course of your career, right, like they can totally make or break something, they can also waste a ton of time, right? It can be completely off base, but at the end of the day is extremely valuable. So that was, that was one thing that sticks with me so much so that I ping soccer moms like Sondra, we have to get you on partner up. So he agreed and we're actually gonna have soccer mom is one of our next guests. I'm super excited about that one, though it was What's your take on that? That definition,
Isaac Morehouse 16:42
there was a little bit of a debate discussion. In fact, I think we featured it in the PhD a couple of weeks ago, that kind of spanned several days on LinkedIn with myself and James carbery, from sweet fish, and Asher Matthew, from partnership leaders kind of talking about these questions of like an audience versus a community. What is a community company versus a media company and these sorts of, and I think I like I like what you said there, I might, I might almost broaden it a little bit rather than a place for those safe conversations, I would just say, like a media company or a movement creates, generates encourages and spurs conversation. A community provides a place for those conversations to continue. Now the reason I just say a place, because it's not always a safe place. And it's not always a high quality space, or a good place. Like, here's the place where you can go and continue that conversation on kind of like a one to one or individual basis. Sometimes that's in a Slack channel. Sometimes it's at a physical event. Communities, they can be incredibly valuable, just like anything, but they can also be to your point, you can sort of get Have you ever met the like community junkie, but he
Jared Fuller 18:05
won't talk about our prior lives? Isaac, there was lots of people like that.
Isaac Morehouse 18:09
That's great. It's like, Okay, how many more conversations, you know, community events can you have with the same people before it like is that doing something for you to push the ball forward, and those communities where you're like, I'm not alone, I'm together with other people that are like me, huge boost. But it also can be a trap, just like social media, just like anything, right? Oh, I the feeling of not being alone. I just want to keep getting that feeling. And you're like, well, there's a point to that. It's gotta get you something. Right. And similar to conversations. Okay, let's drive new conversations bring up new top. Okay, great to what end? And I think there's just a, there's just a really interesting thing happening where you're seeing like, who, who has the trust, or the ability to cut through the noise from an information standpoint, and get conversation started or continued. And then who has the ability to create spaces where those conversations can sort of get down to the individual level, which is what I would call community. And both of those things kind of happen in this in this tournament?
Jared Fuller 19:13
I totally get what you're saying. And I tend to agree. What it brought me to was kind of like the SAM McKenna or Joe rally shout out, Gil, you know, the show me, you know, me, you know, show me how you can help me and then prove you care. Right. Like, what do I mean by that? is I think that in the context of a community. These are all people that are like you that are trying to get to the place that you want to go. Some of them have been there. A lot of them haven't like, what tends to happen with community that I see is that the experts get exhausted. So like, you can quote that, like the experts get exhausted in community. So what ends up happening is that you tend to associate kind of down to the common like denominator, where you have a bunch of people trying to figure out something together. But the person who's done it is like now silent. Like we've had Kathleen booth from pavilion on shout out Kathleen, we had Sam Jacobs from pavilion, you know, close out PLS, the final day final keynote conversation, which is awesome. But here's what I've noticed in top tier communities even like pavilion is like, you know, in the founders channel, like, the founders that I know that fucking crush, you know, that, that have the nine figure exit under their belt and that are working on something that it's like, you know, they're not even taking the VC check, right? They're like, No, I'm still building like, because the second I make one phone call, I'm getting 15 million, like those legitimate founders, the ones that I know can make one phone call get a check for 15 million, that's just a question of valuation, even in this market, guess where they're not? They're not in that slack channel. Why? Because they've kind of been there, right? They've been to the place, like the experts end up becoming exhausted. So what does that mean, from a media perspective, Isaac, that means that we, as the media company, have to go get those experts and get them to tell the fucking story because they, they, they need the much bigger audience, right, they need the, to go from one to 500 to 5000. Because their their voice is so much more valuable in that context, not to say those other you know, 20 people trying to figure it out on their own, like, if they're actually working through problems together and going through hardship together, incredible bonds, amazing lessons, but the person that's been to the place that they're trying to go, they have to have a voice as well.
Isaac Morehouse 21:35
When you get to that point where your opportunity cost is super, super high, it starts does not make sense. And that's where the media type of play the conversation play where it's one to many or few to the masses, if you will, then the economy of that makes sense, right? It's like two different. Two different calculus is there and they both have a huge value, which is that's, that's great. That's a great insight. You know, it's funny, this is somewhat tangential, but talking about when things can sort of when things can go from a benefit to a crutch. My very dear friends, TK Coleman helped me build my first company. We had, we had a podcast for a while called Office Hours. And it was basically like, advice and stuff for people early in their career. And we would take, you know, questions from listeners and kind of like very specific situations, and we would address and give them feedback and advice. And, and themes always emerge in this type of thing. You know, like, Hey, you shouldn't wait for permission, and you should go and do this, Hey, you should start creating a portfolio. Hey, you should. And we would have certain listeners who we would get questions for from all the time. And it would come like over a long period of time, like two years of doing this. And you're still getting questions from these listeners. And it was clear from the questions, they had listened to every single episode probably multiple times. They were like a junkie for the podcast, and all of the, you know, advice and insight in the podcast. But based on the questions they're asking, they weren't implementing any of it. So one time we get a question from this person, we're like, okay, it's this person again. And I don't even remember if it was me, or TK we often confuse each other, and Missmiss attribute things to each other. We're like, okay, they're like, what's, what are three pieces of advice for someone like me, who's still struggling and blah, blah, blah. And we're like, this person has been here for so long, they could probably repeat everything we ever said. And we were like, you don't need three pieces of advice. You need one. Stop listening to this podcast. Don't ever listen to it again, until you have done until you have done the three most common things that we always recommend on this podcast. If you haven't done those, you need to put it away. Go try it. And because once you try it, you'll come back to the conversation not as a passive listener, but as an active participant, right? That's kind of the nexus between conversation and community. You tune in well sation, you try the stuff then you come back into the community with something that you've learned, you know,
Jared Fuller 24:05
you just use brought another point to life for me there Isaac around. There's something between that community and and in the movement, right, that we kind of operate on is a media company, that movement versus community. What can be interesting is those most active community participants, that befriend the experts, right? Like they they help bring voices to light. So like, I don't know, let's give Jill or J or Alan or any of our friends Jesse. Like, there's so many people that we've worked together with like they've been in the community. So we've been a part of had conversations with them. Then we go out in the movement, we create a wider audience together. And then their ability to like, I don't know, go talk to like Brent Adamson, like, okay, legitimate sales author, or like CEO of this company, legitimate entrepreneur or venture capitalist X. It's like wow, Okay, that person's deploying billions of dollars in capital, this is not entry level and then gets to talk and write about them. They can become influencers, as well. I've also seen that happen in real time people that were not influencers, when we started that are, I would say legitimate influencers. In fact, there are some of them that have spoken at our events that are now paid evangelists at companies, right. And I think there's something to be said about that as well. Because the influence doesn't just happen inside of a community, it happens inside of a market. Right. And so I think that's where Sondra will wrap will tie a bow on that I think that's a really tight little insight, you know, for if you have a community team, definitely send them this clip, or the marketing team trying to figure this out, I think, I think that can help a lot because there's something different between a Dave Gerhardt from drift and then you know, Sam Jacobs with pavilion, they are fundamentally different. Isaac, what have you been seeing from our friends out there in the social land that's been keeping your gears turning, or a smile on that face of yours,
Isaac Morehouse 25:59
man. So I was just sort of scanning through what some of the stuff that I've been, you know, liking on LinkedIn, and getting the wheels turning. And I came across something actually, this I think it was from today. Scott Barker, at GTM. Fun. He posted this little clip, and it's like this great little teaser clip for I guess, an upcoming podcast episode with John Barrows. And basically, in this little clip, he's talking about how AI is evolving the sales profession. And in this little clip, he's like, Hey, if you're not using chat, GPT, and all this stuff, you're not at least toying around with it in your spare time as a salesperson, to see how it can help you with your emails and whatnot, then, you're already, you know, he's like, you've already lost your job, you just don't know it yet. And I love that, by the way, I always I always, I always use the line from the matrix like, Your men are already dead. Like, you don't know it yet.
Jared Fuller 26:59
I thought you were gonna, quote, a trite line from the Matrix. But that was actually a really good one for the matrix.
Isaac Morehouse 27:05
That's like, my favorite like, you sometimes you run across those people where they're like, oh, no, you know, everything's, everything's good. And you just start like, no, your mentor already did it. And I think that's the point he's made. He's like, Look, if you're not at least playing around with it and experimenting with it, it's too late for you. Right? And, to me, it's not interesting, so much about the specifics of whether and to what extent AI and chat GPT can help salespeople with specific things that that's all great. I don't disagree with that. It's that insight about curiosity, and living on the edge. I don't know if anybody listening to this has not ever read, breaking smart by von Hitesh route. It's like a series it was it was actually like commissioned by a16z, probably five, maybe even 10 years ago. It's phenomenal. And it's like slightly dated now. But it still holds up. And it's basically just talking about what the Information Age did, and how it changed. Who wins in the world, the type of thinking the type of action that wins. And it's basically the kind of hacker mentality that like this, and like just kind of getting down to how much this upset and changed everything. And people don't realize these changes explicitly, like when the incentive structure around you changes, and nobody tells you, you know, when you're in school, if they change the rules all of a sudden, and say, Oh, we're going to change the way that we grade, they tell you new incentive structure, or even on social media platforms, sometimes they'll tell you straight up, oh, we're going to we're no longer going to have a thumbs down, right? The incentive structure changes. It's explicit. And everyone knows. That's not how it works in the broader market. These things happen, and we don't realize they've happened for a long time. And so like talking about the world that we live in, if you're not spending nights and weekends, playing around on the fringes, if you're not screwing around a little bit with some weird crypto stuff five years ago, when that was really, really new, or playing around with some AI chat GPS doesn't matter what your role is, figuring out does this impact me in my role? Is there something here like you're already dead? You have to keep that curiosity you got to keep a little bit weird. You got to keep young I Mike Maples is a early stage very early stage like seed and precede investor I have so much respect for him invested in my previous company. And I asked him once, I'm like, I said, Mike, I mean, you're pretty, you know, not old isn't like an old guy. I didn't say Mike, you're really old. But like, you've been at the game for a long time. You know, he was the first investor in Twitter when it was it didn't even have a name yet. It was like TW T TR or something like that. He was the first investor in Twitch, which was called Justin TV. He met with a guy at a coffee shop who was wearing a camera on his hat, and literally just live streaming his whole life. And Mike immediately was like, I want to invest in this guy. And like this is he met with the guys from Lyft when they had something called Zimride. There's before Uber this or anything, and then Lyft hadn't been invented yet. And he's like they're playing around. All of these had something in common. They were playing around On at the fringes of a new technology, the Zimride slash lift guys, it was, hey, you can now track your location to within 10 feet of accuracy on every cell phone using GPS. I wonder what we could do with that? What could you use that for? Oh, I guess somebody could pick you up on a street corner because now you'd actually be where your phone set you were that's new, right? Let's play around with that. The other guys like Justin TV, which became Twitch, hey, there's now enough bandwidth to live stream video. What can we do with that? I don't know. Let me just start streaming. And Mike. I said, How do you stay fresh after all these years, you've had all these successes, you could retire 1000 times over, you're still on the fringe. And then he's like, I want to find like the pirates, the people who are doing things were even borderline illegal, who are on the edges, who are like up at night playing around with something that everyone else says seems dumb, but it's weird. And it's out there. And he's like, and if I spend my spare time, just poking around with that, I'll never run out of ideas and investment thesis. And I think that's the point that's been made with this interview that Scott Barker is sharing with Scott, John Burroughs. Yes. It's much more tactical about salespeople, specifically applying it to their role. But this idea, if you're not playing around with the new technology, if you're not curious about it, you're already dead.
Jared Fuller 31:15
It's cool, because like, I got to see this in real time. So last week, I was in Mexico City. And spent a bunch of time there. It was amazing. It was just an incredible, incredible place. So shout out CDMX Viva Mexico, like, absolutely fell in love with this place. Spend time at like four or five WeWorks there. Everyone was working till like 630 at night. So like, hey, the hustle mode. It's on right in Mexico City. So you can be like, Oh, anti hustle culture? Well, I can tell you right now, the San Francisco we work that I was at crickets at five, Mexico City, everyone's Boston at 630 at night, so shout out Mexico City. And while I was there, I had this really interesting thing happen around Chad GPT in AI in hacking and playing around the fringes. So my wife's company notably.ai. So they're like a research application that kind of has spreadsheets, and then like data, like visualizations, like sticky notes, right? So notes, and they basically had a big research project in there where they had, like, you know, that big, moderate, maybe 15 customer calls that were like, kind of tagged and annotated for like, Hey, what the heck should we do with this feature? They hacked an integration with open AI. And it took 16 hours of calls and spit out a paragraph that was just like, piercing insight. And it was like, holy shit. Like, holy shit. Wow. And on its face, Isaac, why I bring that up is I think the first the very first time I saw GPT, three, I immediately ran to my wife. And I was like, You guys have to mess around with this. Y'all have to mess around with this. And they're like, what for? And I'm like, I have no idea. No idea. What you can do with this is probably completely worthless to notably, because like your customer research, right? Like, could that language model actually pull? You know, obviously, the calls have to be tagged by like a researcher still, like AI is not doing that for us tagging. But the Insight is like, Hey, you go through new tag 16 calls and you're like, I think I know what my synthesis of this is. But it's really not objective. If you really think about it, the synthesis is not objective. It's totally subjective. It was crazy how objective that synthesis was every time and like written 50 different ways. You can just keep it we just keep rewriting it. And it was like, wow, we're talking to a seed stage company. Right? That's like production environment, hacked it together. 24 hours hackathon. So that, like, Look, I've always had the best partnerships, people have to be entrepreneurial. I mean, I think Max ultrashort definitely said that in sales hacker back in the day, like they have to be entrepreneurial. So I'm not saying that partnership people go play around with GPT. either. I think that's definitely definitely don't would be my recommendation. I don't you need the data set that really make it relevant. I think now, if you want to use it as a writing assistant, by all means, go mess around with it.
Jared Fuller 34:20
the, the people that are playing on the edges of partnerships are the ones that are in there, like innovating with product and creating not just an integration, but a new feature powered by an integration. They're the ones going out and doing whatever it takes to help that seller. Like how about this, Isaac, make this real tactical? Who's the seller on your team that hates partnerships more than anyone? Right, like, all right, after hours, like I'm gonna go above and beyond I'm gonna take DK, right and he hates partners and he tells the CRO and he talks shit in the public Slack channels. No, I'm gonna make him love us next month, right? Like it's gonna take extra work. But like those are the craze The ones that I see like the partner people where it's like, they've taken off, they've they've gone out and done weird stuff, right? They've played around the edges, not around what's known in partnering. They're playing around with stuff. Yeah, like follow the playbook table stakes, but they're playing around with like weird stuff like, hey, let's take our number one hated rep, and make it the goal, where she's speaking about how she closed her largest deal with partnerships this quarter.
Isaac Morehouse 35:21
That's it, it's not about GPT, or any specific it's about to your point, playing around, you don't have to do it in your day job, if you want to keep it safe, but do experiments. In your free time experiments on the fringes find that one, you know, alright, let me just go on, let me go and strike up this hunch, it's kind of wild and crazy, I don't want to have to ask my boss for permission. So let me go do it on my own spare time. One of my favorite quotes, this is relevant to this, it's just too hilarious to not share him. I'm paraphrasing. So when I get to get exactly but Douglas Adams, who's a brilliant author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, his most famous series, but he's got this quote, where he's like, anything that existed when you were born, is normal, and ordinary. It's just part of the world. Anything that was invented between when you're 15, and 35, is new and exciting, revolutionary, it's going to change the world, you'll probably get a job in it. Anything invented after you're 35 is against the natural order of things. And that last one is the one that you got to hedge against, right? You got it, you can't afford to be like everything new, you know, once I'm after 35 is unnatural, and and I gotta tell you, like, personally, I played around with Chad GPT, a handful of times, I have yet to find something that I want to use it for. I don't really like the way that it writes. I hate that kind of writing. I think we have too much of that kind of writing. But here's my here's my theory is that communities and curation will get more important than ever. GPT will accelerate what I call the in fog ellipse, information, oh, it's gonna get mad. Because you can just generate, right more and more and more and more and more. So now we'll I'll have the problem. When I go online, there's just infinite everything even more than there is now
Jared Fuller 37:11
chatting up. Attaching beauty though, ain't gonna be right. No partnerships playbook anytime soon. I can tell you that right now that content that doesn't exist. Doesn't matter how much you know, how much the bot index partner hackers who by the way, I want to prove this? How much the bot index partner hacker the last model. Do that is straight up straight up copying stuff that we've written PhD, I swear.
Isaac Morehouse 37:31
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was very flattered.
Jared Fuller 37:35
This bot can really take partner hacker opining on stuff and like rewrite it in other ways. But it's it's not producing net new stuff. Right?
Isaac Morehouse 37:44
So that maybe there's something here tied to our earlier conversation. Like you can, you can go through and comb everything and create content with a chat GPT but conversation, that's genuine, that's real. That's insightful. And community. Right. Those are something that there's just something there there's something different there. There's something missing. So the information war, the content war, the optimized for SEO, war is gonna get you know what I mean? It's gonna get out of hand.
Jared Fuller 38:19
I, you know, who's the biggest winner, you know, who's the biggest winner of Chad GPT. In b2b, by far, LinkedIn, in what way? Like far why you think Microsoft has put $10 billion into a company that's been live for three months like Zeke like he had $0 in revenue last year, and Microsoft invest $10 billion. That wasn't for Azure, like people think it was for LinkedIn. Right? Microsoft needs that. Why? Because the entire business sphere is going to stop using Facebook for ads, they're going to stop using Google for ads. Because guess what Chad GPT is going to be competing for ads, like every ad is going to be so micro optimize to the 1,000,000th Penny, the in no humans are going to be touching it like five years from now, there will not be human ads, I just don't believe that there will be at all period on Google full stop five years, there is not a single ad written by a human period. What does that mean? For b2b though, that means that the buying intent signal has to go somewhere and to your point, it's going to default back to like us being together. Like there's gonna be this b2b, weird Apocalypse surrounding b2b That you and I don't want to live in. Like, I don't want to search Google for AI content and stuff that like no, I want to talk to the persons doing the thing that I want to do. I think LinkedIn communities movements, right, like AI bots aren't going to change markets, but in the direct sense, right? Like, hey, what comes after this thing? Well, what comes after the next thing has to be created it net new, right? There isn't a body of work in content, like whenever people innovate, it's stuck in their head. It's like all up here. And then it's maybe their direct team, and then maybe some of their customers, and you have to pull that out of them like, no, like Chad GBC is not going to teach you about Peekapoo data in what he did a data box, right? Every 10,000 People with a marketing team of five,
Isaac Morehouse 40:22
the real learnings are usually a lot of trial and error and a lot of osmosis. And you don't know, after you've succeeded at something, you can often go back and write a book or a blog post, but half the time, you're kind of like making that up. Like if you would have had that playbook to begin with. It either want to work or you want to follow it. Right, like so. Exactly. I thought, What do you said about LinkedIn? I thought you were gonna make a point about how chat GPT has actually been on LinkedIn for a decade now. Because half of the posts on my feed read like they were written by an AI bot just optimizing for eyeballs, and they don't have any they're algo symphony, as I like to call it. Yeah, I just
Jared Fuller 41:06
think LinkedIn is going to be the major beneficiary of that Google, Google and Facebook major, major, massive threat. Microsoft major winner, so I call that right now. Like I would go, I'd go long on Microsoft, and I would go probably pretty short on Google.
Isaac Morehouse 41:23
So here's an interesting question. I I've thought about your point about what is chatbots GPT? What is the source material that it's scanning if you ask it to define partner ecosystems? Okay, it's gonna scan a bunch of stuff, and it's gonna come up with something. And when we read that we're like, oh, yeah, it's definitely it's definitely scanning some partner hacker as a business model for some of these chat bots. I can imagine people paying to have their stuff be sourced material. So when people are using chat GPT for search? Yeah, like, oh, we want to make sure that the stuff that we want is showing up in there. I don't know, I can see some some pretty interesting, weird stuff in there. Like, we had
Jared Fuller 42:06
the same, we had the same thought. I mean, I think a lot of people did is like, whoa, you know, hey, because we weren't the only I mean, we weren't the only people that saw our content get answered by a bot. Like obviously, like, I was like, Hey, I wonder how it's gonna ask about the stuff that we talk about, you know, our answer. And it's a lot of stuff is like you could tell just came from Austin, like using our language. And that's great, fine, whatever. But I was like, You think there's would be an opportunity for some backlink there? Or some like source or like, proof? At some point, or no? Like, what if, what if there's no more new content? Like can AI just write his own content? Where's where's Sam going with this? Where's open AI going with this? So obviously, they could open it up to it. But I also just heard a podcast where Sam said they're not going to. And that was like, Whoa, interesting. But they might, he said, we're not going to but we might. It's like, why? Because? Because at some point in the cycle, I think he thinks the AI will be generative. Right in terms of you ask it a question, and if it doesn't have the answer, it formulates a thesis and posits a new one that goes out and tests it. And then based on the responses, but those like, eventually you get a generative AI, which means that AGI in my opinion, but so we won't go there.
Isaac Morehouse 43:21
No, we won't. But look to me, in the near term, at least, this is where trust and those nodes in your network matter even more, because under this chat, GBT AI world, he or she who controls the source material controls the definitions of things. And he or she who controls the definitions, controls the words, controls, like the scope of possibility in thought when you think of over the long term. So hey, what is what is go to market? Oh, I'm gonna go ask the chat. And it will tell me what it is based on whatever it's pulling. And whatever that is, gets reinforced enough. Now, I believe my brain has been conditioned to think that's what it is, right? And now what what what I, what I, what is possible for me to conceive of is being limited by that source material. And people know this, right? And they're wary of it. They want to make sure that they're not being accidentally or not conditioned to limit their scope of thought, by whatever the input is for source material for our Chatbot. And so that's where there's going to be like a competition among these things. And then individual communities to say, Yeah, that's what the official thing is going to be. But that's because it's over indexing on this one thing. We're trying to do something new and yet they won't, they won't include it in the source material because they think it's not the real thing. It's not officially sanctioned or whatever, right like that's where you need like undercurrents under the overcurrent.
Jared Fuller 44:57
You know, that's where you need the movement. That's where you need the movement's stuff because like, I guarantee you this time next year or six months when GPT four launches, right, like, anything that we thought was like phrase like partner hacker would will be gone because so many other people in sites have, like, started to write on this. And then it's like, hey, we wanted to be included in you know, chat, GBT is like, why weren't you linking to us? And then like, you really just, it'll probably be gone and GPT four, and if I'm being honest, right, like the overtones that feel like they were us, they're definitely not going to be there. I just because it that stage, the amount of content, etc. And that's where you lose it is like, Hey, how can I credit you? Whenever I've come up with the answer in real time based on reading, you know, 10,000 articles on the subject? How should I include 10,000 articles that the rain quarter, you know, like, less like, it becomes untenable.
Isaac Morehouse 45:45
Here's a good place to read, I thought we would have a chance. Like we would just go down all kinds of stuff that we've seen, and we went so deep, and just a few things that we come across
Jared Fuller 45:53
that that's what happens to us is like we can we can take the most uninteresting things and make them wildly interesting and lessons for life. So here's my here's my,
Isaac Morehouse 46:01
here's my parting thought. I'm gonna make it my goal, Jared, because, you know, we don't want our audience to think, hey, maybe this is just a couple of deep fakes with some AI and this whole conversation is fake. You've heard it no doubt. Right? So this is why every episode, I'm going to make it a point to say something really stupid that makes no sense and is, you know, doesn't have anything. That way. You guys know that we're real. It's like it's like an anti? I don't know. I guess it's a Turing test. Have some kind of I don't know what you would call it, but this was fun, man. I liked this after hours thing. I don't know how much I can sustain it. But from time to time, I think we should.
Jared Fuller 46:39
Yeah, no, we got behind on the podcast schedule. We're actually recording three this week. Isaac? Oh, geez. Which I I'm excited about because we had a rapid fire. Why are we doing that though? Because this is episode 97. Dude, we're three away from 100. So Whoo, I get to join the 100 podcast club with Isaac. Isaac was in the 100 podcast club about 1000 podcasts ago. But I have I'm very excited to join the 100 podcast club. And what a better day to announce you know we're right away right around the corner we got something special for it. I don't know if we're gonna necessarily release it you what we're doing yet. But I'm excited either way. There's two options, I believe on the table right now. Both are going to be sick. So whichever one we choose, and then yeah, shout out to Logan wiles. Another 100 podcast episode person so if you haven't already gone and Googled it, check it out. Marketing together just launched today on the partner hacker network and selling together weekly podcast and newsletter. You can go sign up at partner hacker.com/podcasts After Hours Isaac Morehouse, Jared Fuller, partner up. Peace out