Friends With Benefits #13: Being Intentional in Work and Life with Sangram Vajre

Sangram Vajre, CEO at GTM Partners, shares his experiences being an entrepreneur, husband, and father. He gets vulnerable about his struggles and gives insights to those looking to set appropriate boundaries and expectations around their work.

Sangram shares his views on partnerships and GTM strategies. At the core of his perspective, he emphasizes the importance of trust in creating strong relationships.

Subscribe & Listen On:


  • What is it about a community that is so effective? 3:29
  • What drives a successful partner community? 9:22
  • The importance of having a partner ecosystem. 13:13
  • The importance of reporting to the CEO. 20:14
  • Balancing work and family life. 34:00
  • The importance of journaling as a framework. 38:24
  • The importance of extreme focus. 43:32
  • The book Sam recommends. 48:29


Jason Yarborough 0:09
do welcome to the Friends with Benefits podcast, a business podcast about revenue generating partnerships, not a podcast about business time with friends. We're your co hosting couple. I'm Jason.

Sam Yarborough 0:23
And I'm Sam. Welcome to the show friends.

Jason Yarborough 0:25
Welcome back to the show my friends. We are so thrilled with this week's guest this week's episode. We are here seminar coming to you live from our house, I'm in the office, she's in the kitchen. And with us today we've got no stranger to anybody listening to the show. I can imagine. I gotta say the single advisory has been one of the most beloved people in all of b2b tech right he's one of

Sangram Vajre 0:52
our man All right, that that's really really crossing the line oh my god when good say about other person right now I'll take it out. We're just getting started.

Jason Yarborough 1:04
Top 21 b2b influencer walk bestseller in Wall Street Journal USA Today author, founder of basically the ABM movement communities, you know, all marketing automation, you've been around the block man, I'm not mentioned the fact that you and I, we've actually had the the lovely opportunity to work together and share multiple stages. So we've got some history, we go way back. We've been friends for a long time, and I could not be more thrilled to have you on the show with us today, my friend.

Sangram Vajre 1:34
I'm super excited to have you both you and Sam in the house. Like all right, I'm all at like the let's geek out on all things go to market and personal.

Jason Yarborough 1:44
That's it, we're gonna have a lot of fun today, we've been looking forward to this episode for quite some time. So let's let's just jump right in and get to this thing. We've had enough technical problems getting this thing started. So let's maximize our time.

Sam Yarborough 1:55
It's the real world. This is not all perfect setup, right singer. And we like to start the show with a little bit of a funny, odd question. But to keep things on brand, what does Friends with Benefits mean to you in the context of b2b tech partnerships,

Sangram Vajre 2:13
someone you can call in the middle of the night or the weekend saying I need this thing to be done? And they would be like, Yep, I got you no problem. They're not looking at the clock. They're not seeing your client, they're not seeing if you have a you know, what are you going to do? For me? It's, it's something that you just know, and I think you mentioned this in the opening, Jason is, I think our b2b tech world is so small. In reality, it might look like there's a lot, there's a real really small, so you better make friends fast and stay friends for long because you're going to need them.

Jason Yarborough 2:47
Now I agree. And like the work that we do in partnerships makes it even smaller, like getting the chance to work across different teams, companies, businesses, like we, we can make this road real small, real quick. And I know you're the road of partnerships. So let's, let's jump in a little bit of some of your previous experiences. So you started, you know, flip my funnel, which I think everyone you know, in the podcast community might be familiar with, you know, which was a community before communities were cool, right. And communities are the kind that the hot new ticket into the go to market space right now. And, Mike, you've said that no matter how you grow, you found that community led growth is one of the most efficient growth models. Yeah, what, what it is about, we call it CLG? What is it about CLG? That's so effective?

Sangram Vajre 3:35
Well, you know, the, that I used to say this on the football podcast a lot that without a community, you're simply a commodity. And I mean that in all sincerity, because the reality of a commodity, as we all know is that it can be exchanged, it can be replaced, you can go cheaper on that raw account step. But when you are part of a community, that's the place where you belong. And as humans, that is the basic tenant of life, we all want to belong, we don't want to necessarily, you know, follow this or follow that. And what we really want is we want to feel like we belong to something and what flip bafna taught me, Jason really is that when we didn't even have a solution, we were really talking about the funnel being flipped. And wouldn't it be awesome if you know we could focus on the right accounts and turn them into customers and turn them into advocates? Wouldn't be awesome that it's you don't have to go through this. The lead monster like Why wouldn't it be authors, it was just a dream, it was just a potential is just what proper, not even a promise, but a view into the promised land that it's possible. And people who were excited about that we're all the people who became as like this became best friends because they all wanted to go on that journey. They didn't know how hard it will be how long it will be. They didn't care if there was a technology solution to it. They just wanted to belong on that journey. So that's why I feel at the heart of heart, you're gonna find community. And if you look at look around long enough, you're gonna see all the category leaders in the marketplace today in b2b, and you can count them on, on your on your fingers, they're not that many, they all have community as some part of their centric play of how they think about go to market.

Jason Yarborough 5:25
Interesting, like the sense of belonging? Would you say that these, you know, the sense of what we're talking about here with the podcast that the community allows for? Not only brands, but each other to develop deeper relationships with those are doing business with or even with their peers? Yeah,

Sangram Vajre 5:43
I mean, without that, I don't know, how else would we go? I don't remember, this is the, we're in 2023. Now, you look at this in 2015, I remember or 2016, even 2017 timeframe, I used to read blogs that would say, Oh, you need to go double, double, triple, triple in revenue. And that's the only way you know that you're building a great business, right? You need to hire 30 sales reps. Otherwise, you don't know what you're doing. Right? And you need to go all growth at all cost. If not, you don't have enough, you know, whatever phrase you want to use to do to show that, you know, you can do it. And and that was all we now look back and say, oh, that didn't make sense. Well, no, it all we all did that, like we all were, I was part of that. So I know, I would raise my hand and say I was in it. And I was fully believing in it. And I realized that was wrong. Right, like so now we're on the other side of it and saying that I didn't make any sense. But we all did. But ultimately, ultimately, that all was towards we want to grow efficiently. But the word that I think most people don't use is the word that I hope, and I wish more people would start using is is one we want to grow responsibly. And that responsibility coming comes up with the right type of customers, not any customers, the right type of customers, right type of partners, not any partners, but the partners who have the same vested interests, same values and the same view of the future. So that level didn't exist last last 10 years, we all were in this different world view of growth at all cost and when it hit us like a break, we are now like oh now Okay, now we know what how to look things straight. Now we know when that meets.

Sam Yarborough 7:24
Man, what's coming to my mind is this has come up on a lot of episodes that we've done like Cory Schneier talked about this. I'm thinking about this from the view of a partner person, your whole concept of if you don't have community, you're a commodity. Lots of partner people have been laid off as a recent, and I think it's because they haven't evangelize the community that they've built from a partner ecosystem. We've talked about trust, attrition, and how like if a partner person leaves, that's not just like somebody else comes in takes the role that has to be like, those relationships are earned. And the trust is built. And it's not just it's not just transactional. But you're building like we as partner, people, I'm thinking about my world, I live in breed Salesforce, like I have a community within the Salesforce ecosystem. And that's been built over years. Like that's not something that someone else can just pick up. It's an interesting parallel between the two.

Sangram Vajre 8:26
It absolutely is and I do believe that part where people are probably the best community people they are constantly thinking through Alright, how can I help you? How can I how can I connect you to another person that will make your life easy? Like I think that's the basic ethos, if I understand partner world, is that's what they're doing all the time. They're just connecting people, they're not looking for a deal for them all the time they're looking for if you're successful, I'm successful. Yep, that's basic tenant of partnership, I feel like and again, you go back to the basic human state, like that's what we all we all want to belong, we want to make sure we're all safe. We're under a you know, we come from that world. You know, we don't talk about much as Yeah, we wish for to make sure that things are good. We can you know, we don't have to worry about stuff. And the way you do that in the modern age is by making sure we take care of you. So when time comes you will take care of me and with the time so right we can have these conversations now we don't never say that we were not always thinking about it that way. But that's psychologically I think that was going on.

Jason Yarborough 9:25
Totally. They just bought on it like that is like even my previous roles. Running partner teams is like I've got a treated in as each partner as a community. So my last role out of shared Slack channel with 350, like mutual, my company and partner company, right? And I told my partner account manager like treat this slack channel as its own community. Create engagement, right? If you think about like, what what drives a successful partnership, its value trust relationship, probably the same three elements that drive a successful community. Yeah, and you can create value within it. Community, you'll get the trust and you'll create really strong sense of belonging and relationships. And that's what we're trying to do here in partnerships.

Sam Yarborough 10:08
So you talked about how category leaders are, you know, leading, leading the charge on having communities around their subcategories. It's still a new thing that lots of companies are not doing this, what in your opinion is holding them back?

Sangram Vajre 10:24
Well, number one, I don't think it partner conversation or strategic conversations in most executive rooms. They just are not. I, I think most companies would talk about marketing and sales at the highest level of go to market and Parker is not considered in a strategic arm of go to market, that's not the first thing they think about when they want to grow. There are incredible use cases like you know, HubSpot is the greatest use case, I believe in b2b, where they really build a partner ecosystem that led their growth, almost 60 70%. And that has looked upon as a almost something that they that was, oh, that worked for them. But 99% of the companies, that's not where they start, they start with saying, I gotta hire a bunch of salespeople. And then whenever we feel like we need a website or something, we'll hire a marketing person to do that. And then whenever we feel like, again, we need to grow, I'm gonna tell them to build the community. And then finally, maybe I'll get to this idea of partner, but you know, they just create some agreement with some partner folks, and they will bring money, it's so backwards, that it doesn't give enough breathing room for partner to grow and create an ecosystem, partner partner program, our long term relationships, that needs to be thought about from the very beginning. And if you're a new person in partner, world, and you're trying to create it, if if the CEO doesn't see that as part of their top five or six different areas of growth, that's a problem. That's there's no way Parker Spartan program can thrive, it will always be a side gig, it will always be a will find if you have Oh, throw some bounce over there. But it needs to be one of the four or five strategic areas of how the CEO of the company thinks about the growth in the next and if it's not, and if you reporter person, either you figure that part to get there and make sure that happens. Or help your CEO to see that well, if you want to grow here, you need partner, you need to figure it out that that that connection for them, because it may not it may be just not understanding. But if not, then you need to move out and find another place where you can actually have a place where he you know, part of the system can grow

Sam Yarborough 12:32
louder for the people in the back.

Jason Yarborough 12:34
The love that. Let's let's just grab that step and be done here. So as as you're rolling out GTM partners and doing some of the the work you guys are doing as analysts, are you seeing anybody that's starting this in a very effective manner? Like, are you seeing any newcomers that you're you're talking to? Because they'll do it? They're like, yeah, we need to do this, like, where do we start?

Sangram Vajre 13:00
I heard about a company called reveal. And as you guys, they do cool stuff. And they are definitely on my list as targeted Gil Raleigh about it. And she was sharing all the new things that you guys are talking about. It's been really cool. I think I honestly, I don't think that's, that's in most conversations, even a even part of the equation, which is why we launched the sixth go to market motions, and we combined the ecosystem, and pull that into the partner because we believe be part of it, part, the near bound the ecosystem, all that needs to be part of the partner thing. So we try to elevate that conversation because candidly, I don't see it, I don't see it. And I actually try to pro and figure out but it's not in the top five list of most CEOs to think about growth, it's just not there. And that is doesn't require a combined community and metrics and process and all the things that are happening right now. And I think in the next year or two, the smart remember this way that companies who are going to make a change in the next two years are going to be the companies that figured out this partner play and get ahead of

Sam Yarborough 14:13
I think the other interesting thing about that too is even if they are thinking this than being CEOs it's not like a flip the switch fast revenue. And so it's changed management really because especially right now in this economy, CEO CROs we need money we need it fast. Yeah, and the partner play to build that ecosystem it will happen but it's a long term play And so helping to tell that story. Yeah, there needs to be a community and

Sangram Vajre 14:44
yeah Sam like I think on that note though, that will always the case I think even in the no doubt when you 17 All this is like I want more money fast like that was the only difference I want more money fast. Now I want just money fast so I can survive. So there was always this I want money fast. it the more was the only variable there. But you're right, it is because it's not a switch. Because it's not one and done. It needs to be in the early conversation so find when I talk to people who are in the partner roles, and they're like five roles below the CEO. And and then on the the whoever they're reporting to there again two or three roles or are by themselves no budget no support system. Am i Dude, what are you doing there? Like what's going on? Like yeah, why did why are you hanging out by the threat of like a 707? Like in the air? Like why are you doing that? Like just get a parachute come down and find out of the place? Because that doesn't make any sense. No doubt. Absolutely.

Jason Yarborough 15:45
Yeah. It's it's it's interesting too, is like I was having this conversation yesterday with with the Rob Rob holds former guests of the show. Partnerships, you kind of move in from that nice to have to must have it reminds me of early days social media. I was a social media consultant way back in the day. And everybody wanted to be on social media because everyone was there. There was no plan and no real reason as to why. So now everybody's kind of like, hey, we need a we need a partner program. Why? Because everybody's got one. And we need to have everybody's talking about it. Yeah, but okay. Why? You know, so now it's becoming a must have, and it's got to have that strategy wrapped around it, it's got to have their go to market plan around it. You know, there's all sorts of players in the space now and technology, and you got to have a plan around that. So I guess inbound and outbound started kind of drying up, you know, what we're saying here? Is that near bound, which is your partner motion fully embedded, is the way to revenue going forward. And to your point, it's going to have to be part of that, that top three, in my opinion, go to market strategy. Yeah.

Sangram Vajre 16:52
And we, you know, on that note, Jason, I think, the idea of near bound, and the idea of partner the idea of ecosystem, it needs a home your way for people to see it. Because here, here's where we have been at go to market partners, one of our core values is that we need to burn less calories. I'm not we don't have like bad people on like, you know, it's not like that, like, yeah, you gotta burn more calories. No, it's really burn less calories off your customers thinking about what's going on or make it simple. So burn less calories. So if I have to think about it, like, where does it fit, and I have to like almost close my eyes and then line it up and then stack it like you can see people doing that. I think I think we as a community need to do a better job of evangelizing this and helping people to burn less calories thinking through. Okay, where does that is that in addition to all boundaries, it part of all bound? Is it part of inbound and add on to that? The how many bounds are there is about this, you know, we got to, we got to figure out a way to get people to think through that like, Alright, here's the architecture for you to think through. And I think that's, that's on us, that's on us, as a group to continue to create that open source environment, because the idea is right. But I think the, the the implementation of it, where everybody can just say, Alright, that's it, that's what I was looking for, is part that I think we all need to work on.

Sam Yarborough 18:23
You are so spot on. I mean, that's something that we talk about all the time with people here is like, how many times can we possibly enable you on what partnerships mean? How many times but it still is so

Jason Yarborough 18:38
that conversation? Matt's body. Its ecosystem, right? It's, it's kind of like, what I like to say is like, it's a strategic layer of your company's atmosphere. Just like the atmosphere here, as you know, the stratosphere, mesosphere, all those fears, like, your ecosystem should be as crucial as a layer of your company's atmosphere to your survival as such, and like where, you know, where does that live? Right? Is it on the revenue team? Is it on? Is it a whole new thing that we're building on the ecosystem team or whatever? Right? It's, it's a matter of like figuring out, you know, how strategic this is, and having those conversations. And I appreciate, you know, people like you and Brian who are out there, you know, providing the content material and saying partner led growth needs to be one of these six functions.

Sangram Vajre 19:27
Yeah. And and to be part of the sexism is a higher bar, right, have a good that means that is strategic. It's not wonderful. It is incredibly strategic. What's interesting that Matt, and I might flip it back on you both since you both live in this world is this as I see it, where do partners typically report into in most recessions?

Jason Yarborough 19:49
Yeah, mostly revenue, I would say. Yep. Yeah, although we were together terminus, I was reported to product operations and revenue

Sangram Vajre 20:00
Yeah, you were you were on the seventh or seventh on the on the far corner, you know needing to there are a lot of connecting flights? Yeah. A lot of good they do fly just there. Yeah, Sam, what do you what do you see,

Sam Yarborough 20:14
I report to the CEO. And I do remember, like Mike's darker, early on was so adamant in these conversations that like, if you don't report to the CEO, your ability to fully articulate the value you can bring to the company is going to be limited. Because if you're only in revenue, that's where you focus. If you're only in marketing, that's where you focused.

Sangram Vajre 20:37
And then do you see that you have a much bigger influence and impact than most partners that are not reporting into CEO?

Sam Yarborough 20:44
I think so. And I also am lucky enough to sit on the executive team. So I'm in that room where I'm hearing conversations where partners aren't necessarily thought of, but in my mind, it's like, wait, I can help there. Wait, we can expand and so it, it opens up the opportunities, so much more than reporting to just revenue?

Sangram Vajre 21:06
Well, I'm just flipping the question. So I'm gonna stop asking questions in a second. But this is so interesting to me. And hopefully, whoever listening, yes, Sam, like do what you always it was that role existed? Did that exist before? And if it did, did it always reporting to the CEO?

Sam Yarborough 21:21
So I, formally I reported to the CRO. And I became good friends, if we'll call it that peers with the CEO and was like, here's what's actually going on in the business. Here's what I'm hearing across the organization. And I cannot influence it under the CRO drum. So we went through a lot of changes. He elevated me, which is I'm super grateful for but yeah, I mean, it's been the most positive thing.

Sangram Vajre 21:50
I think that conversation, you just, I mean, maybe forget everything I ever said on this call. And like Jake, what Sam just said, because that's the most important part of what the conversation really that people need to really hear in and listening, I think, is that visibility wasn't possible, even though it's not the biggest organization in the world. It's not like you know, the, you know, your organization is very similar to most other organization may be listening to this, for in terms of size, and scale and scope or fit. And in even in that level organization, you if you couldn't make that amount of change and impact without being reporting into it. I think it begs the question, are we really thinking about are you in a strategic? Are you in a strategic partnership role? Are you are you in a partner enablement role? Or are you in add on role, I think there's a layers of of this partner role, you could have the same title. But very quickly, I think you went from an add on for the company, if I will, to being the most strategic partner conversation because you elevated that and as a result of that, there probably million dollar deals happening in the organization, because of those relationships that you may never get attribute it for. But the CEO understands totally that you were part of those conversations. And now is that is, that is the heart of it partnership is actually going to bring in if I have to really pull it down together even further as partnerships get to and this is more for the CEOs, maybe to to go back and tell them will actually drive the biggest revenue. as well. All the six different go to market motions is actually not going to be inbound, outbound, or even community lead at for that matter. I believe partner LED will drive the most amount of revenue, if it's played right. Everything else is impacted, because of the partner led events, activities and things that you could do. I don't think most companies get that.

Sam Yarborough 23:50
No doubt. And it's been a very, I mean, transformative year here at PFL. We just closed the biggest deal in PFL history that was partner sourced. We've also aligned like our marketing team only goes after our partner leads now. So that means our sales team is only taking leads were partners attached. So the whole company, the whole go to market is wrapped around partner motion. And it's wild to watch like, it's exactly what you're talking about. But yes, it's happening. And it's it's the way forward, no doubt about it.

Sangram Vajre 24:28
I think people need to start influencing and having those conversations. I want to create Sivan as the CEO of a company. If somebody on my team came to me and said, Yeah, I want to figure out a way to influence the biggest deals in our company. And here's my way, I think we can do it. And here's now I'm listening. Like, I'm like, you know, have those conversations with me. But if you just said to me, well, we want to figure it out and we want to do some more webinars with some of these people that are partners of ours. We would like great go for it. But I don't know what the end result is. I don't know where we're going with this. I don't No, what is is that good for you? Or is it you know, is it just air cover? Like, where are you going? And is it now three years from now? The biggest source deals are going to come from this channel. So you better invest in now you got back venture?

Jason Yarborough 25:11
That's yeah, that's what we're seeing on the side. That's been my experience of partnerships as well. It's like the deal sizes are larger, the velocity on those deals is faster. And they're the retention on them is longer. Right. It's kind of that that whole community factor as well, in the we talk a lot about it's no longer about, you know, how people are biased about who they're, they're trusting, right? Yeah, people are trusting your partners to guide them and navigate them down the buyers experience. They're not going to Google anymore. They're going to people they know and trust they go into their community. Yep. Right. They're asking, like, who has the best knowledge on this topic? Who has relationship here? Who has this there? And that's that's kind of that's how we're coming in influencing these deals and really helping build these these bigger deal sizes and faster pipeline velocity.

Sangram Vajre 25:57
Yeah, that love it.

Sam Yarborough 25:59
Okay, so on that note, on the threat of relationships, I want to switch gears a little bit. So you have quite the resume, early stages of Pardot is selling to exact target, then to Salesforce to Terminus. Now go to market. What's been the red thread of relationships throughout your career? Surely, you couldn't have done all this without strong relationships?

Sangram Vajre 26:25
Yeah, well, personally, I mean, I don't know that I'm in where you open book around the cell. You when I was building terminus, B and my wife, you were almost divorced during that time, because, you know, backing it up, when I was at Salesforce and wanted to start terminus, I literally doll came home and told like, hey, we I, you know, I met just two guys. We're gonna build this company, and we're gonna make millions. Like, that's the conversation, right? And she's like, we just had our second baby like, you know, our daughter, like four weeks. And she's like, I am not going to a job right now. Because, you know, with the first bit of good we had our son Wii Wii, it was it was a tough delivery. So for the second one, you know, we decided that alright, you need to take a break and less stress and go through this in a in the right way. And we had a brilliant, she had a better delivery. And as a result of that we're like, so she's at home. And I'm like, Alright, I will quit Salesforce, and do this thing called Terminus. I don't know if I'm gonna make any money. But over time, we're gonna make millions, you know, like, every every dumb entrepreneurs. Dream. Yeah. So and she's like, No, that doesn't make any sense. I can relate or a week or so of back and forth. She literally told me said three things to me, she's a lot, I can see if you don't do this, you're going to regret and I don't want you to regret. And I appreciated that comment a lot, even today. And then she said, Okay, I'm gonna go get a job because we can't afford the living than the lifestyle of the kids. And so we're gonna put our you know, baby daughter early in the daycare and I'm gonna get a job and so that we can sustain the living standard, like alright, and then number three is that but you have one year in one year show me this thing has legs otherwise, you're gonna go find a real job which was the best Parker conversation you could ever have. Right? Like it was a time bound strategic emotional grace, love truth, all the mind into that. And I like great I can I can, I think I can live with that can do that. So she got it from job right away in four weeks. And, and I went on this journey of building terminals and just poured everything into it. But along the way, I just forgot why I'm doing it, who I'm doing it for and how it needs to be. So year, year and a half later, we were just at home and she's like, I don't even know who you are.

Jason Yarborough 28:55
Well, you have chances on the job loss in the role. Yeah,

Sangram Vajre 28:58
lost in it, like, you know, your priorities are no longer your family at any given stretch. So, you know, we're like, very close to like pulling up divorce papers and all that, and in a in a grand way, thank God because I feel like God intervened in many ways in our lives. And we found our faith in Christ, and we gave our lives and surrender to that. And then we learn to surrender to each other in that process. And that literally restored our relationship with God restored our relationship as a result of that with each other, and restored our relationship with our kids. So so now that I'm building another company, I have a better perspective and a better point of foundation and understanding of like, why am I doing what I'm doing in how do I represent Christ? How do I represent my relationship? And where what are the guardrails of things and know what's really important, but I went through a very dark season during that time and and came out I think we came out stronger out of it, but it was Not the prettiest time in my life.

Jason Yarborough 30:03
Diary, that's, that's a heck of a story. appreciate you sharing that? And how? How did that conversation go out and look like when you went to go start GTM partners, right? You're, you're leaving something that started taken off comfortable with terminals then like, I gotta go to something new, like, how did that that change at the 18 month mark of Terminus affect and influence? The decision to go sorry, GT and partners?

Sangram Vajre 30:29
Yeah, well, at this point, like, you know, we knew what the conversation is going to be about. And thankfully, because of the B terminus, I did cash out a little bit. So we were not in the same little financial situation that we were so that really helped. But at the same time, I think I knew what the conversation is about, like, it seems like I'm an entrepreneur, and this is

Sam Yarborough 30:52
one thing leads to another.

Sangram Vajre 30:55
Yeah, Ash, I think you'd be really bad at I don't think anybody would hire me. So gotta start. So as a result of that I did that's an entrepreneur classics out and, and adding disco rod, we just know how to set expectations, even this weekend, like I switch off my almost switch off not fully, but switch off, where between my fault is not with me from Friday, all the way until Sunday after church. And the reason and so I'm getting I've used to being that and I've never done that before. Until Until I started to understand my boundaries. And I know myself enough that I'll be constantly doing it if I you know, just sit around and scroll is just our ease our body to flexes have just become that. So those all those things have helped. So she knows that I'm doing the right boundaries around it. And then the kids know about it, too. And so we all are like, you know, yeah, Saturday, we are really truly on, we celebrate our Sabbath day and spend the time not using technology, but just being out and about and doing things. And so everybody say even if on a Saturday. So last Saturday, we launched this Saturday, we launched a new good, we're launching a new emerging tech report. And so my team was working. And so I told I do I talk to my family and like, guys this week, and I'm going to work because the point of it is that I gotta help my team to do it. So they understood why I'm doing and I understood what I'm doing. And so we can set expectations. Back in the day, I had no idea of setting expectations, I'll just do whatever is needed on without knowing who are the most important people in my life.

Jason Yarborough 32:29
Yeah, just on your own course. So let me ask you this. So you mentioned some of the height young founders dreams like what, what advice do you have to young founders or you know, emerging CMOS, and those drivers that are managing their? You know, how to best manage their own personal relationships long their professional goals? How did you encourage them to avoid that truck?

Sangram Vajre 32:50
Well, I mean, I don't know if it's avoidable, I think you're gonna hit it in some way, shape, or form in some way. It's just just not human not to go through these levels of incredible passion passionate about something, how do you build something without 24/7 Thinking about it, it just starts even though I'm shutting it down, my brain is still working, right, it's still going through. So I will keep sometimes a piece of paper and I'll just note ideas of things that come on us out of that. So but I'm just making a physical effort not to jump in at the moment. But I feel that's a luxury that I have now, I came out of that in a different way. So it's always gonna be a struggle, and it's gonna be hard. The question we have to figure out in some ways that where do you and how do you at least for me, where do I root my foundation in it? And if if you have a clear Foundation and the clear why behind it and being honest about it, like are you doing it for yourself? Are you doing it for your family? Are you really What are you doing it for? I build companies, I'm not this I'm not. I mean, it's not for my family, like let's just be honest, like, you know, we're fine. I'm building it because I enjoy building a business I enjoy price. So it is purely something I want to do. So then I have to balance with Okay, well, that's not all for my family, there is a clear part of what I want to do that I need to balance with what I want to do with my family too. So we have so we have created all the African region all these guardrails around me and I think that's what the best way to represent is to create guardrails for you all right, well, Saturday for example, that that's our day that we just do that dinners. We always do family dinners together when nobody we have like beat it we have this thing is nobody starts until everybody sits at the table. Named Mama's cooking or dad like No, no, we all have to sit at the table. So we do that like so there are things that we just over a period of time instituted in our family to continue to build that relationship and belong ship where we all wait for each other. We all want to do this for each other. Even to point we have this mission statement that we created for our family that our kids were part of creating that two years ago, which literally says, Rogers always make it through with God's love, grace and truth. So love, grace and truth are our core values as a family because again, I'm an entrepreneur. So I think my core values you guys are two or two of my products figured out, looking at all the work stuff in our life. So we got a mission statement, we have core values, we talk about it, we figure out, all right, well, you know, if you tell us the truth, you'll get great. But if you don't tell us the truth, you know, we got a problem. So really bringing work to life

Jason Yarborough 35:36
does amazing. The best part about this podcast podcast is the amount of family relationship guidance and insight we get into other families. So like, this is helpful for us as well. Totally. to kind of wrap up what you just said, though, and I think it's worth highlighting is like, what I feel like I heard you say as like not, don't find your identity should not be found, like in your, in your career in your work, right? Maybe for some it could, but I think your your identity is more than your job is more than what you do if your professional standpoint, from your goals. Like it's part of it, maybe you know, a portion, but like you'd love that shirt, let your identity be found, like outside of what you do what you love and who you love.

Sangram Vajre 36:17
Well, you know, you have JC you know, I'm assuming Jason and Sam, we've, you know, when I as and when I die, you guys would come to my funeral. And and if you get to speak at it, you want to be saying was saying I'm gonna do the flip my funnel funnel, you know, movement, like I hope that's not what you were talking about. He was the founder of Terminus, and then then he founded go to market partners, none of us are gonna say that, right? Nobody says that at a funeral like nobody, nobody everybody takes says about what? Who are you? How did you make me feel? How did you make, you know, where did you belong? Like, how do you create something that got people going? Or what values and how relationships that you had? So I did write down to like, last year, my eulogy? And I would encourage everybody to do that. Write your own eulogy, what do you want people to say when you die. And it was a book that I read called strength, from strength to strength, it was talking about second nerves of life by all the books. And it's a great book. And in it, it was it again reminded me of eulogy. So as soon as I read the book, I just wrote my own eulogy. And I read it to my family, and say, this is an as if I don't do these things. Call me out, like I need to know because that's what I'm expecting my eulogy to sound like, and I'm not saying this is what you got to say. But I'm like, I want this is the person I want to be. And if I'm not that, I need you to call me out on that one. So I think it's important for us to understand from that perspective,

Sam Yarborough 37:49
I love everything you just talked about from like the relationship with your wife and the sacrifices both of you had to make to get through that together. What you've learned on the back end of all of this, and what I've really been hearing you say is you're extraordinarily intentional about all of this, and it's taking you some learning to get there. But I think that's a huge learning, we can all take that. You can easily just go through the motions, you can pour yourself into your career, or whatever it is, but the rest of it will fall by the wayside if you're not careful. And I think that's fantastic. I want to ask you, I mean, man, there's so much we can talk about here. But I was reading, you go through a nightly routine with your son. Can you explain to us what Hart is?

Sangram Vajre 38:41
Yes, yeah, we, for four years, almost now four years, we have done it. And now we have different routines that we have played around because I'm allowing him to do his own routine as he grows. And but journaling is a big part of it. And as I started journaling, he one day he looked and said, What do you do? And he was like nine or something? I'm like, I'm just writing my thoughts. Like, I'm not explaining journaling. I'm just writing my thoughts. Here they are, I want to do that to him like, oh, well, let's do it together. Anything you want to do with kids at that age together. They're all in for that, right? And it's great time to do that. So I just as I wrote down my own journal over a period of time, after a year, when I reviewed it, a framework popped up now that again, you guys could laugh at it, because everything I think about is in frameworks, you know from flood map, I'll do Oh, as to team too. You know, it's

Jason Yarborough 39:29
all making sense now. Yeah.

Sangram Vajre 39:32
I think God that's my God, God's gift on that. One is I think about and frameworks. And a framework appeared to me that literally was I felt like all I wrote down was what makes me happy. What was I learning? What do I need to pay attention to? What am I thankful for? In those elements were became part of it. So when my son started to think, either he was looking at a blank page, so I thought I'll give him a framework to just get get started. And it literally was the heart for Any work? Really what makes you happy? Well embrace what what did you embrace learning? What do you learn today? So just the E, I, what do I need to pay attention to? That's the a, what is the right thing to do that you wish you could do? And that all of these leads to conversations, which is ultimately the goal of that, and what are you thankful for. So that's what edgy er T stands for. And he did that for like, almost 280 and a half, four years, then he came up with his own framework, and now he had his own acronym, and which I'm like, absolutely have all power to but he and I did that almost two or three nights a week. And it was it was such a blessing helped us build such a deep connection. And now, as he's grown up, he's a teenager plus, so now I do a lot of devotion stuff with my daughter, because she's into it. And so it's every stage is a gift, it's a blessing.

Sam Yarborough 40:50
And what a gift you've given him too, though, to be able to like have a framework to think through things and articulate that like most young kids, I didn't have that when I was nine so like, that's fantastic. And it's something he'll carry forever. So

Sangram Vajre 41:06
journaling is so important guys like you know, I do it I do it every night I do it for with my church, give it to my team because I think it's a it's a view into it's a million dollar if you wanted to hire a million dollar psychiatrist or a somebody to just, you know, tell you what's going on with you and your life journey. That's that's you write it down, don't look at it. A year later, when you look at it, what you wrote down, you will know exactly who you are, what matters to you, what's important to you where your challenges are,

Jason Yarborough 41:35
does this heart framework provide the framework for your own journaling?

Sangram Vajre 41:40
I use that as hard. Now lately, I've been using more. Three things I'm grateful for, and three things to do every day. And I literally like you can probably see it here like this is this is average, like three things I'm grateful for. So I will just write that I'll share that with the team. Three things to do. So those are my three things, and then a prayer at the end of it. So this is every day. And I will scratch out at the end of the day what I have done, and it makes me feel accomplished. The team knows what I'm doing. So this is this is my internal framework to just just make sure that you're not this is another guardrail. He everybody has a unlimited To Do List sound but if you have the three most important things to do, then when you're done, you're going to have 100 of the things but if you do the three most important thing you need you said you need to do when you do that. Go have a good nap like in a Go sleep like it's okay. Tomorrow morning you get back to it, you get out what are the three most important things and go do that. We can just kill ourselves trying to do everything every day.

Jason Yarborough 42:40
Agreed. And I feel like this really ties in well to like your messaging within Pete community. And if I remember correctly, it's about the dreamers who dare to be about 1% better. So do you define that as journaling this? No, take it as intentionality is part of your own journey of becoming 1% better every day.

Sangram Vajre 43:01
It is and even peak you know no surprise that's a framework in itself which we don't talk about is peak actually stands for gear picture of success like you know, I get that that's a gift and a curse clearly as you can you get imagine and it's really stand for something it's the picture of success meaning you really should be able to picture what you want to do not the I guess the company, I don't have a goal that says need to be attended and our goal the picture of success is we want to be the go to for go to market. Yeah, so it's a have a clear picture of success. E is for extreme focus. Like really Sam you call it out, be intentional, be focused on the one thing you're good at and just go all in on this. A is for authenticity, do it authentically like you would very easily people can figure it out if you're not you can't fake I can tell everybody be authentic tomorrow morning 9am You can do that you myself or do anybody so and we all sit and work with people were authentic naturally. So be authentic around it. And case kindness. I think kindness is a competitive advantage and the partner whole ecosystem there is flooded with people who are kind either it's like the basic tenant again, back to the relationships and the long ship is how do you make kindness as your competitive advantage? So big is in itself a framework of that.

Sam Yarborough 44:17
Maybe that should be our family motto J

Sangram Vajre 44:21
i give us four frameworks today. Four frameworks to personal professional success. There's a book coming on just a little bit.

Sam Yarborough 44:34
Okay, so we have a few minutes left. And I do want to ask you this. Being a woman myself, I've heard you talk about having a daughter and the importance of being super mindful and intentional about raising a bold and strong and courageous woman. How that's not an easy task, I'm assuming. How has this been an eye opening experience for you? What are you learning through that?

Sangram Vajre 45:02
If so, I heard this I think it was Sheryl Sandberg years ago where I think she said when uh, when somebody says somebody that Dougal that they're bossy. Don't say that, call it out and say like, no, they have leadership skills. Because you would never call the boy bossy. So I think it's deep rooted at the very early days in all of us of how we treat different genders and the words and the thoughts that we have preconceived in our minds, even dresses, like you know, our clothes that we would buy, like, you go and look at all the clothes, it's all unicorns, and colorful and then boys are like rock stars and beat the world and be the scientist or the world and all that and we are again, already painting the picture that you know, this is really your wheelhouse our interest far you can be you can be anything you want. Like, I'm not gonna go that like get out. Just don't all the world where it's going, but it is what I we would go and buy my wife is great at that, we will go and buy your a hero, t shirt, or you can do all things or there is a word, the Bible words on it that that speaks in life into the person of who they are. So, so it's like, so those little choices, I think matter, like wherever. And just because if he stay on the sidelines on that one year, they would be daughters can grow up thinking that okay, well, I guess I'm not supposed to be strong. I guess I'm not supposed to be here only boys are heroes. I'm a guest, I'm supposed to just be on the side side. So I think it's important from the west. So for me, it's very important. So you know, like, iannetta said about dinners like, you know, Christian, I wouldn't start eating until my daughter and my wife is on the table sitting like, we were like, we're not going to treat as if we are like the hair like, you know, we're gonna start eating and you know, there's people cookie, like, that's not how it works. This is a family. So those elements that I'm treating my son will treat his wife, then that is where it has helped me think about like, well, how I treat my wife. So my wife and I, every morning, we'll start our morning with a prayer together. And our kids will watch us pray. And I think they watched us for almost six, eight months. And then one day my son asked, like, why do you pray in the morning together? I like because after God is the first and the most important person for me in my life right now is my wife. And I want to start the day with a prayer with her. Because I feel like that's the way to do it. Start the day. So those all these little things, I'm constantly thinking about what is my son learning from him of how he should treat his wife? What is my daughter's thinking about when she thinks about a man in her life? And, uh, yeah, and it has to start with me. And I have to be, you know, if anything, I have to model it in every day. So all these little, little little things in I think, hopefully will end up becoming a list of things that you just live. And that that goes into the lives of our kids.

Sam Yarborough 48:05
Man, they add up so much. I felt that so much I read the moment of vulnerability. My fifth grade teacher pulled my parents aside and said Sam's too bossy. And I think about that often still, to this day, like in exact rooms. I'm like, was that boasting? Like, No, I know what I'm talking about. It's not bossy, but those things add up tremendously. So yeah. Your daughter's lucky to to have that from such a young age. Jason, close this out.

Jason Yarborough 48:39
All righty. Let's do it. Sam, it's been a it's been a real pleasure having you with us today. Really great conversation. You'd like to end the the talk with you know, one question that kind of leads people thinking or humored, or engaged or something. You've mentioned a lot of books, you got a lot of books behind you. If you had to recommend one book to people in this GTM space that you occupy an influence. What book are you leaving us with?

Sangram Vajre 49:06
Energy in the GTM space?

Jason Yarborough 49:09
Just in the, in this b2b space in general, it's St. Sam good.

Sam Yarborough 49:17
I was gonna say and then I'm going to follow up personally and ask in non business related

Jason Yarborough 49:23
Okay, one one b2b book, one personal book.

Sangram Vajre 49:26
Yeah. So from a b2b. I think Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey Moore is still one of the classic books that I refer to awesome because it does help you think about what is the chasm every business has it? And you got to be cognizant about that and figure out how to cross that weary with almost a yearly read for me, I go back to that over and over again. Okay, actually does another one, which is Marc Benioff is behind the cloud, which talks about all the different places that both of those two books are really good. For, for me, the other one I already mentioned, which is from strength to stay ramp. It's about Arthur Brooks. And it is he's a Harvard professor. He wrote on happiness at one point. And now this is the next book he wrote. And the reason I liked that book a lot is because it was very important for me personally, because I feel I want to, as we all need to find and figure out a second curve in our lives. And a quick point on that. One is, Daniel Pink wrote a book some time ago about regrets. And he talked about in another one, there was a, he said in one of his research that over a period of time, either you become increasingly happy, or increasingly sad. You never stay flat. And that really made me think about like, shoot, am I going to become like depression or something later on? Because I'm very happy right now. Like, what's

Jason Yarborough 50:48
that happiness?

Sangram Vajre 50:49
Right? Like I'm at the height of it and from Iran, it's all downhill I don't know. I don't want to be that grumpy guy. Like, it'd be really hard to pull that off. So what is happening so so but this book strength to strength talked about the gave me the answer to that question, because I was left with wondering what will happen is that what we all need to do is to look for a second curve in our life, where we have let go have the first carb be or not, if we find ourselves Nando's, we're good all those at Terminus and man I was. So if I stay in that, then I'm in my first curve. And I've never graduated and I will become grumpy because I'm living in the past. Your second curve is supposed to give you excitement and joy and whatever maybe it is with your kids and grandkids or maybe it is the new business you want to launch or maybe it is the new whatever you want to see you got to find a second curve. And I felt like I went through that personally, where it took me a while a minute on that one. So it's very important for all of us to figure that out.

Jason Yarborough 51:47
Mid sensory as I think he also talks about like your second curve being about your your imparting and sharing your wisdom and your influence that you've gained over over time. And that crystallized intelligence, I think he calls or something like that. So yeah, that's a really good one.

Sam Yarborough 52:01
Sangram I could we could talk for hours longer. So hopefully, this is the first of many, but thank you. This was a tremendous conversation. I learned a ton. We got a new family motto, I got the next book on my reading list, like

Sangram Vajre 52:15
frameworks, frameworks today's

Jason Yarborough 52:19
doesn't matter. For us.

Sangram Vajre 52:24
Yeah, no, thank you for allowing me to share. You know, it's I'm an open book, and I've learned to be just more open about it. And if it helps somebody like there's nothing better that than that. Love it, no

Sam Yarborough 52:35
doubt. And I think the world Yeah, we're grateful for it. There needs to be more of it. So thank you for leading the charge. That's it for now, friends. We'll see you next time.

Jason Yarborough 52:46
See y'all, bye.

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