Marketing Together #26: How to Identify the Nearbound Evangelists in Your Ecosystem

In this episode of Marketing Together, Logan Lyles welcomes Kevin Hospodar to discuss how to create Nearbound evangelists in your ecosystem.

Kevin shares insights on leveraging different types of content, repurposing strategies, and the importance of clear communication in partnerships. Kevin and Logan also delve into how to rank priorities, measuring partnerships, and the collaborative nature of marketing.

If you want to optimize your marketing and engage with evangelists, this episode is a must-listen.

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  • 00:00:05 Finding and prioritizing evangelists for marketing.
  • 00:03:57 Partnerships should be tailored and assessed strategically.
  • 00:10:30 Communication and face-to-face meetings build relationships
  • 00:17:36 Sales and marketing collaboration drives successful partnerships.
  • 00:21:11 Utilize successful content formats to maximize reach.
  • 00:25:48 Exciting convergence of inbound and outbound marketing.
  • 00:27:11 New tech ideas meeting, partner to navigate.


Logan Lyles 0:05
It can be overwhelming to say the least, when you're looking out into your ecosystem in search of near bound evangelists to activate, not to mention, once you get a clearer picture of your ecosystem, you can easily rank your evangelists based on the wrong criteria. You know, I've personally been in marketing meetings where marketing partners, influencers and content creators were being assessed for potential content collaborations, and they were merely stacked ranked based on audience size alone. That's a big mistake, at least according to today's guest on marketing together. Kevin hospital, Senior Director of Marketing at mine matrix, instead of this narrow view, Kevin really advocates for a more nuanced approach. But one that's not actually overly complex, he really suggest starting with what you're trying to accomplish. Is it more reach into a new audience segment? Are you looking for a partner where you can co create content in a new medium, or for a new channel where they have expertise or abilities? Or are you looking for a partner with a similar set of accounts and audience where you can go deeper to reinforce an existing message, what you want to do is form different columns of potential partners based on how they can help you in these different areas to achieve these specific goals, then you start to prioritize within each of those columns, on where to start in which evangelists to activate further in this conversation, we get into how to set up KPIs around your near bound marketing efforts, and how to measure what's working. And finally, what to do when things aren't. Alright, let's get into today's conversation with Kevin, as he shed some light on where to start in really phase four of nearby and marketing. When you're identifying the evangelists, you want to activate in your ecosystem,

Kevin Hospodar 1:58
the whole idea around partnerships and partners like for us, it's a little different, too, because we work in the PRM space. So like, we talked about partners that we enabled, but there's also partnerships. And I think sometimes those two words, the they get confused, but we've always looked at partnerships of how we can enable it and how we can service them through our software. And in the last 1218 months, we've kind of taken that look internally and say, You know what, how could we be doing better to have stronger partnerships. And I think that a lot of times two people think about partnerships, as strictly coin operated, that they're you're putting you're putting money, you're putting effort, you're putting dollars into these partnerships, hoping to get money out. And I think there's a big missing, there's a lot of opportunity now to to create partnerships and have partnerships that aren't strictly for revenue generating motions, but they're they're for marketing, they're for awareness. And they're just also there for like creating a sense of community in that whole ecosystem. That that's ideal. That's pretty big right now.

Logan Lyles 2:54
Yeah, absolutely. One thing that I'm trying to figure out is, I've just moved into a new marketing role where I'm really trying to help execute near bound And so I was excited to hear from you, as you shared with me offline, kind of looking at who are these strategic partners? Who are the potential evangelists that can help us surround our market with a similar message? So one thing I'm thinking through is, who are those right evangelists? Where are the right partnerships? Because you can look out into the ecosystem, and it can be a little overwhelming, right? Because you could say I could partner with them, they've got maybe a bigger audience, maybe they're not as aligned with our narrative in the in the market, they are a complementary product. So take us through some of the maybe the internal conversations you guys have been having of how do you look out into the ecosystem and prioritize the relationships, you want to build the partnerships you want to form as then you start to think about the technical work of marketing together with those strategic partners? For sure, I

Kevin Hospodar 3:57
think it's interesting too, because like, there's no one size fits all, like, there's no partnership, that's going to be the exact same, like you can't rinse and repeat. You can maybe get a big chunk of that. But it changes too. And I think it's like, you have to look and see what are the pros and the cons and the desired outcomes. And like you kind of weigh those back and forth. And you can also look to see like where those partnerships like start to stack, rank them and don't just stack them like as a stack, but stack rank them horizontally vertically, like look at see what the strike is. And so one thing that we look for is that you talk about like a content partner or like you look at analysts, you look at research firms, you look at all these people that you can kind of work with what's the desired reach and also to like, look at the audience. Is there an audience overlap? And I'm not one to say like, what might work for someone else, but like, I think there's a there's value if you have overlapping audiences so that you've got kind of two people kind or two organizations like working in that motion together. But there's also if the audiences are separate, and I think that's I just identifying the what you want is the outcome. Have you tried to get more penetration to the existing audience? Are you trying to find new audience? Are you looking for someone to supplement that? Hey, they're really good at podcasting. And we're really good at more traditional content, someone really good at social media? Where can you complement each other? Or do you like focus on the things that you're both really good at? And say that like, the sum is greater than the parts? I think it's, there's the my not my answer that not answer. I don't know if there's really an answer to but I think it's if you look at it the right way, when you look at KPIs and how you measure partnerships, because I mean, that's one of the things you want to sit there, because you want to look at those KPIs. They should all be different. I mean, look at those in that ideal relationships six months, 12 months down the road, what do you want from that partnership? And it shouldn't be a blanket answer, it should really be highlighting the strengths where why you even thought of that partnership to begin with. You look at a content partner, is it the idea that, hey, we want to be able to, to up our content by a certain percentage, or we're looking for greater reach, or we're just looking for more pieces of content, ers partnership, get his support and activity that you're trying to watch? I think that if you strictly look at partnerships on a deal, referral, dollar and dollar out kind of thing, I think you're really missing the partnerships that the new version of partnerships, it's not just a referral, someone saying, Hey, I talked to this person, or I know this person, it's a lot of networking. And that kind of goes both ways of that your partnership that you're being judged on, like be clear with it of like on the other end, like hey, what do you expect from us? What kind of KPIs are you going to judge that partnership for enough? It's not just like that one person said, the top and sucking in the partners that everyone's kind of interconnected and make sure that you're fulfilling your side of the contract as well.

Logan Lyles 6:35
Yeah, I think oftentimes, we go into marketing partnerships. And we don't really define those KPIs, and we get to the end, and we're like, was it good, I don't know. And then when we say it wasn't good by not continuing down the road with that partner, inevitably, it's like, they feel like they did something wrong, you don't know if you did something wrong. But if you're clear on it going in, then you can just say, hey, we just didn't hit what we thought we were going to hit. Everybody did what they said they were going to do. And that's okay. But we're just not, you know, the juice isn't worth the squeeze for us both here potentially. Or maybe we need to pivot and try something different. Because we do see that we're aligned, everybody did what they said they were going to do. And there was the effort there. And there's a relationship that has been built. Let's try again. But let's try with something different, you don't really know how to make that call, unless you decide where you're going. When you start out with that partnership. I also like what you said about stack ranking your priorities, you know, we were talking about identifying and selecting the partners that you are going to activate as your evangelists, your marketing partners in your nearby marketing motion. And up to now I've kind of been thinking of, you know, stack ranking them to a degree because I guess that's what our mind does. But my mind went to I've been in marketing meetings where they're looking at influencers or content creators or other brands, and what's right next to them, the number of followers, and then it gets stacked ranked, just based on that. But what I hear you saying is, well, what do we want to do? Do we want to venture into new sort of content like video where we don't have a lot of strings? Do we want to do podcasting? Do we want to reach a certain audience that we already have with a little bit different message and add value there? Do we want to reach a new audience. And so based on those, I'm kind of looking at it more as a Kanban board of you have different columns based on the outcomes you're trying to achieve. And the partners that can help you most there, and then you kind of stack rank within that. But then maybe you say, Hey, we're going with these four partners, all in this one column, or we want to touch on all four of these and we want one of these partners from each of the four columns. Has that kind of jive with what you had in your mind, Kevin?

Kevin Hospodar 8:44
Yet, I kind of even corrected myself, I use the word stack rank because like, that's the the buzzword or like the the identified thing, but like, it's a vertical stack, right? But it's also horizontal. So like, like you said, if you want to count followers, or you want to count connections on LinkedIn, or you want to count YouTube views, like also look at that. I mean, if if you and I are gonna partner up Logan, we're gonna say, hey, you know, we're gonna make this great podcast. But if our audiences and you look at like that Venn diagram, if they're completely overlap, like, okay, great, are you gonna lean into that and say, you know, we're going to be better together and go and do this, or do our Venn diagrams so far apart, that we're just trying to leverage and get each other into each other's audiences that we don't have that shared audience. And the measurement is that we're going to look for exposures and new people, so the content might even change. I mean, that's, that's one of the things if you don't even know what your goal is, or how you're going to get it. Like how can you design the content there? Like if we were having again, a marketing conversation, and my audience had no idea about marketing your audience was marketing experts? How am I going to be able to how are you gonna able to penetrate into my audience, without least like laying some groundwork and doing that so it should drive the content and things you're talking about? Because the messaging has to meet the audience. You have to be clear of what the importance is there to

Logan Lyles 9:55
love it. So we've got some nuances. I think you're adding to the conversation here of its Selecting your marketing partners in your near bound motion, we we already got into a little bit of setting the right KPIs and making sure everybody's on the same page of what you're trying to achieve. How about the next phase where you're really starting to activate, set some expectations with your partners that you are going to market with? What are some of the things you guys are testing, trying maybe trying to figure out, as you activate some of these partnerships that you have started to forge for mine matrix? Kevin,

Kevin Hospodar 10:31
I think communication is like the first thing, like that's, we have some partners that you know, what they're gonna go do, they're against the relationship and the style relationship, they're gonna go do their own thing. And then we'll connect up whenever it's needed. Or there's other partners that we're talking to on a daily basis, and we're sending text messages back and forth. And there's like an open line of communication. I think, also the next, like, the really big thing, and we saw this as like a huge strength was we did events with our partners. And whenever we launched our kind of our partner program, we went to a big trade show and had this big 20 by 20 booth, which you normally stocked with a lot of people I mean, that would be you think about it, it's like it's it probably take 20 people to stop at 20 by 20. Booth over four days in Vegas. But what we did is we took our team and then supplemented with all of our partners and say, Hey, come with us. Come spend your time at the booth. Come sit with us. We're gonna record some podcasts, we're going to talk, we're gonna connect, you'll meet our team, we'll meet your team. And we'll go through a couple of days of just like super focused, intense conversations. So that's what the trade shows are people walk up, you have to quickly get through those conversations, you understand, you hear what they're saying, they hear what she's what you're saying. It's like, a lot of like, repetitive conversation, you can really kind of get deep into it. So I think that was a really huge thing that just kind of worked out the timing for us so that we all got to meet face to face and create that ecosystem to where there was partners, partner one partner two, we're having a conversation, and we weren't even involved. And I think that's, that's that's really what you want in that ecosystem that you want that interconnectivity where maybe the organizer doesn't have to be involved. A but you're doing it kind of on your real estate, you're providing a place and value of connection that way. So I think it's the communication and getting to see people, that makes a big difference.

Logan Lyles 12:10
Yeah, those in person events, I think are a big opportunity not only for you to work with partners to drive more signups drive more activity, get people to the booth, all that sort of stuff. But they're also an opportunity for you to spend more intimate time with that partner that maybe you've only connected on Zoom calls with maybe they've never met more people on your sales and marketing team, and you're getting some FaceTime with them, you We just had our annual off site, what we call Grand Council. And we had representatives from two different partners, Nicole Pereira and Amber chemists from culture ish. And, and Andrew Dembski, from Zen pilot, and they they spoke and I spoke to some of our team that got to spend some time with them, they were like, we get some insights from these partners that we didn't get. Otherwise, we wanted them out. And one of them to speak to the to the company at large. But just the face time with those partners. And with the rest of our team, there were some benefit there to where, you know, they're now more top of mind, they're thinking about those partners that they know by name that they might say, hey, this came up internally, maybe we should get your thoughts on this. Or maybe you have an idea of where we could go with this content. And so I think not skipping over what that FaceTime with partners can can be as kind of an added layer, or maybe unintended benefit, if you're able to do some in person embed events with partners,

Kevin Hospodar 13:40
for sure. And I might be a little old school that have like, I don't want to go pre COVID Post COVID. But I think that it's also hard to have that whatever you do it in zoom calls if like, if you're meeting communicating and talking strictly about business, and about like an agenda. I think that the nice thing about those off sites, the team meetings, the quarterly meetings, the trade shows, whatever, whatever it is, but if you're put into that environment, face to face, there's the intangible in the unplanned. And there's also the repetitive nature. And I think that like I think on the sales and marketing side to hear a prospect conversation with party while you have partners together like that's when you really hear like get to see those muscles flex of that everyone has like their standard elevator pitch, you can go and read their about us on the web. So you can do all those things. But whenever you start to see how other organizations culturally but also then on their product, how they respond to questions, requests, challenges, objections, brain storming in those things, like you really see that in an intensive environment. You can see it over and over again, it can, the knowledge that you can suck in from something like that. It gets just can't get that from anywhere else. Again, it doesn't have to be a trade show. It could be one of those like more intensive, like it's an online thing, whatever, whatever the tool you have and wherever you can make it work but seeing it outside of just an agenda, weekly check in BI monthly check in that's where I think you can really get the value.

Logan Lyles 14:58
Yeah, it's a really good point and I think it's some thing that we've learned from sales teams, right? There's there's so much that you get from your sales training or shadowing this person, but also just being on the sales floor and being in the environment where you hear that another sales call, and you're like, Oh, I never talked about it. That way you learn something same sort of thing with your partners that you're going to market with, you know, Now thankfully, we have tools like Gong and others where you can get some of that even if you are remote and distributed, or at least for the most part. So leaning into those things where you can create some natural, unplanned organic overlap, where your partners are hearing you talk in a different environment that isn't a planned webinar, or a scheduled check in call, I think there, there's really some things to lean into there.

Kevin Hospodar 15:45
And I think also to have like you meet whatever is you meet people in marketing, like you, you meet someone from market, you're like, what part of marketing do you do like, that's always the hardest thing to because the marketing is just like an endless, it's endless, different roles and responsibilities and what marketing means different organizations. But I've always found that some of the best marketers or the people who communicate the best, have that opportunity to kind of sit with the sales team because they get to do that. Or they're mimicking some of those those sales types training or that they're getting pulled into other parts of the organization. Because you get some exposure other than just creating content, creating plans, doing pieces, doing distribution, doing those things, where it's a lot of pushing out, whenever you enter that collaborative environment. Like that's really whenever you can, you can up your game.

Logan Lyles 16:27
Oh, man, you touched on one of my favorite things, how marketers can can learn from salespeople or adapt some sales skills that really do help them in adopting a near bound marketing approach. Because, you know, what is salespeople know how to do that track people down that are outside of their organization, they know how to build relationships with with contacts, and do the things that don't necessarily scale on the one to many. And I think those are the things that are slight shifts, but actually help you enable near bound marketing, because you need to build relationships with these partners with the content creators with the influencers, or the analysts that you're really collaborating with. And it can't just be one and done. It's, hey, come into this marketing session, and we're gonna hammer something out, and we're gonna push it out together, there's a lot more of, you know, somewhat account management that you have to do with these folks, even if they aren't reseller or solution partners, even if they are marketing partners. There's still a level of relationship and account management. And so, yeah, I mean, man, if you want to touch on a few other things that were marketers can learn from salespeople in this collaborative sort of approach. You've got free rein, my friend,

Kevin Hospodar 17:36
I mean, I think that you have to go at it together. I think that that's, I've always been a marketer, but also like to attach myself to the sales side, whenever I was working in direct sales team to do the other things like yeah, great, you want to put me into a trade ship, we can trip people in the I'll go have this conversations, go do all this, like, I want to learn because that's like that immersive type thing, but you look at the partnerships, and you kind of look, okay, who should be running your partnerships or who it obviously, there's someone who's a partnership role. And like, if you if your organization is lucky enough, and they put the value on and said, Okay, we're going to carve out a role with with partnerships, but take a sales leader, take a marketing leader put them together, because I think between the two, and there's some synergies there of that, one, you're gonna have a salesperson who's going to be trying to see the finish line and getting there and like understanding that, you can't just do this just to kind of do the spinner wheels, like we have to have a destination. And then you put the marketing side that also maybe slow down the spinning of the wheel sometimes and look on the practical sensor, say like, Okay, what's the goal, what's the execution, and whatever you match those together, if those teams are able to work, I mean, that's how we've approached partnerships here, my matrix, that it's a sales and marketing motion that comes together to become the partnership side of our team. And we kind of approach it as a unified front, because you're, you're getting two different perspectives. And it's something unique, that if you just let one kind of go off on their own, it would negate the other stuff. And then you got to have them both in the row. Even when you're doing marketing with partnerships, you're doing sales with partnerships you gotta have there because marketing is to tell that story, make it scalable. But if you're doing the marketing side, the sales needs to be there to to understand of like, what it is that you're offering is if it's a co sale, or if you're doing content to understand what that language is, so they can take it into their environment as well.

Logan Lyles 19:14
I think that is a conversation and a blending of those two mindsets and approaches that anyone who's been in b2b sales and marketing can really appreciate right where the sales leader or the sales individuals really looking at that finish line. And that can be good in the marketing team is looking at the strategy looking at the things the long game that's going to help get us get us closer there and they both bring value and they can both hold each other in check and if you have both of those perspectives coming into how you work with and market with partners, it's definitely a good thing.

Kevin Hospodar 19:50
Even outside of partnerships, you want to love love and be a better salesperson Go Go walk a mile in the marketing shoes, you want to be a better marketer go with the salespeople because it's so easy to like discount All those things in the cross, like, if it's direct, if it's partnerships, if it's channel, if it's nearby up on him, like, no matter what, like, understand, because you're gonna put requests back and forth, the sales and marketing team has to work in harmony for that. If you want to get better, go, go understand what that is, if you're a marketing person doesn't understand why can't the sales team just say what we're trying to get them to say and close these things? Or the system sales teams? Like why can I get these things done by marking like, those are the common pain points, like go understand, go understand what it takes to do those go sit through the nuance understand those relationships and have a level of empathy there, that I think that you can really you can uncover it and make yourself better outside of all this, like that's the one takeaway, but everyone's listening wants to get better sales and marketing, just like switch hats, see what see what it's like on the other side.

Logan Lyles 20:44
So Kevin, we've touched on scale a little bit, we touched on KPIs and trying to figure out what's working and what's not. And I love your advice that you mentioned at the top of the conversation that those shouldn't be the same for every partnership. But as you guys look beyond identifying, and then activating some of your near bound evangelists, some of your marketing partners, how do you guys think about leaning into what's working, identifying what isn't working, and then iterating. From there,

Kevin Hospodar 21:11
I mean, I'll give it a tangible example, we'll look like look up look at a content partner. And we already kind of done this, you kind of do it out of like checking, you figure out something's working, you do more of it. So you look at print content, or you might look at live webinars on demand webinars, this micro video content, is you're looking at all those things, you start to see like, Okay, what's the reach? Like? Yeah, you still have to kind of check the box, you start to kind of be present on those, but like, where are you using the stuff and I think that the, the short form video content of the video contents really great, because well, how you scale that make it better is like, instead of spending time building out like a longer white paper, take the transcription off of a video, put that into text form. And then you've got you've got your your, your your written content, a blog post, something like that, that you might not design for first. So kind of leaning into whatever medium or whatever is really working for you design off of that first and kind of go with that approach. So hey, this micro content is really working well on our social media, putting out one minute, two minute videos, is really helping us out. So great. Next time you're doing a webinar, instead of having like a long product demo webinar, or more of like an open conversation, structuring the set in a way that you can have the checkbox if you've done your long form webinar, but it's really easy to go in there and slice out six pieces of micro content, it's really easy to go into a podcast and pull those pieces out. And then once you have those those reach blog posts are how do you kind of do that you can do more with the same amount that you're already doing, and doing the things that are working. And then if you can say, hey, you know, what are our blog posts aren't working, we're going to do this where we're going to kind of take the text out of a video and do it that way. And whatever things slow down, and we kind of see a level up or we can maybe find a content partner, that helps us write those blog posts, but like, let's not blow up our whole system blow up everything that we're doing to try to fix one piece, when we know we've got five out of six things are working to fix that one. Let's just kind of slice that away and deal with that separately than messing up the kind of the machine the projection.

Logan Lyles 23:02
Yeah, I love that example, you're really talking about, once you identify what's working and what's not, how do you start to reverse engineer to get more of what is working that example of webinar or podcast content, maybe you're not seeing the podcast grow? Or maybe you're not getting the Event registrations for the webinar or live stream that you would ideally like instead of just scrapping that you realize, like, hey, every time we take a micro video clip, a one minute long, and we put it on YouTube shorts, and we put it on LinkedIn, that's doing well, then let's actually figure out how do we engineer that live stream or that podcast to be optimized. So we get six of those clips out of it. And so let's not abandon this, let's just reformat it, let's change what we're looking at as far as a measure of success. And then let's optimize and build a process for it. And what I love about this is it's combining what I hear a lot of people talking about when it comes to content repurposing strategy, like Justin Simon, on LinkedIn, with a near bound marketing approach, because you do that. Typically, if your marketing loan, you have those six video clips, where does that go out your company's social handle Great? Well, with a near bound approach, who was your speaker from your partner, it can go out through their personal profile, it can go out through their company page and your company page and who from your team hosted it now it can go out, suddenly six pieces of content turned into turned into dozens of pieces of content, because you've got multiple people involved, and so don't scrap what's working, and make sure that you're amplifying as much as possible because now you have more people to be able to distribute that content

Kevin Hospodar 24:43
100% also to look at your internal team, like look at the strengths and like, again, if you want to stack rank partners like also staggering your internal team like if you again, you've got a great podcast and set up here. You've got the software, the technology, you got the hardware, like you've got everything kind of ready to go. And if I know that my team can can't spin that up, then great. Let's find a partner that can help us do that. We're going at it together. And you know, then maybe we're not even if we're not on all of them, like, how do we support? How do we get involved in the conversation? How do you add into that and make it more because you could spend your spend your time spinning your wheels chasing off and trying to get something from zero to 50. But if you've already got four things that you're at a 45, and just takes a little more of a push, like, great, find someone else to help offload that work that you can still work with, and then focus on things he's really doing. Well,

Logan Lyles 25:31
absolutely. So well said, man. Well, this has been a great conversation, Kevin, anything we didn't get to on identifying and activating your near bound evangelists, the folks that you're marketing with, that you wanted to touch on, as we round out the conversation today, or one thing you want to call out that we did touch on?

Kevin Hospodar 25:48
No. And I think that the biggest thing for me and in the thing, that's pretty cool is it like, inbound, outbound now nearby, and like all, all these things come together, like, there's so many neat things to learn and know about, like, there's so many different technologies, so many different, like, it's overwhelming, or maybe it's a piece of advice, like it's overwhelming, like for someone who spent my whole career in content creation, marketing, always on the tech side, always on b2b. Like, I feel like every day I hear the names of new websites, new tools, new processes, new ideas that never heard of before. And I can get to the point where sometimes I'm like, I feel overwhelmed with it. But it's like, it shouldn't be overwhelming, it should almost be exciting of that there's all kinds of different things. And even if you're not using the tools, you're not using the process are not actually able to like implement some of these ideas yet the fact that you have in the back your head, and they're in your quiver for whatever like that time does come I think that's what's super exciting. Like, it's, it's so easy to like, look and judge your programs or the things that you're working on. Or as people grow professionally, or just the organization to point out the negatives of like, well, we're not doing this, we're not doing this, but it's like nimble, there's ways that we can do when we're ready to do it right to do it, right. Like we're ready to go. Like, we don't have to invent things like that from scratch anymore. There's gonna be, I mean, one year from now, we're gonna be talking about something completely new and different and new ideas. I think it's just really exciting to have so many people that are doing this now. But they're also excited about it and to create new tools work.

Logan Lyles 27:11
Yeah, absolutely. Where the new ideas in the new technology are meeting. It is really exciting. I am with you, Kevin, I just want to speak to you know, the person listening to this right now, who says, Yeah, I've been a little overwhelmed with, you know, every carousel that says, Here are the 10 AI tools you need to have in your marketing tech stack right now and how they're gonna save you hours and help you scale. And I'm like, that's great. I don't have time to review every one of those and that sort of stuff. But that's where a near bound approach can help you, right? Because maybe you have a partner who's like, oh, we figured out this thing with chat GBT that's helping us, you know, you know, summarize podcast content, or, you know, whatever tool, I'm in the process right now of testing out four different AI tools for content repurposing, from the two podcasts that I host right. And maybe I partner up with someone who is a little bit further down the road, with learning mid journey in image generation and in the AI landscape. And so I think that's where, as you mentioned, finding the people that we can we can partner up with, is actually helpful. And it's less overwhelming, because they can say, oh, yeah, these 10 tools that you saw on LinkedIn, really, these two are really where you would probably want to focus and how you would use them, because we already tried them a little bit. We're going to go further faster by going together as we continue to say on the show.

Kevin Hospodar 28:30
Yeah, I mean, you can learn it and get get your lane and kind of know what you are, but like don't be afraid to like take other people's ideas and then get their expertise and get their input. Like that's like you said, but it just, there's so much out there, you're never going to be able to there's no one person has has it all figured out. So go out together.

Logan Lyles 28:47
It's certainly not me or you. But we are learning from each other. And I love that, Kevin, if anybody listening to this, you're new on their radar, they want to learn more. From you hear more about what my matrix is up to or stay connected with you as appear in the marketing space. What's the best way for them to take any next steps and reach out to you, man?

Kevin Hospodar 29:08
LinkedIn, I think LinkedIn is the best way to do it. I mean, it's the it's the virtual business card. So yeah. connect on LinkedIn, and then try to post out and try to stay up to date on the things that we're doing, but also why we're doing them trying to give that that little bit of like context around it.

Logan Lyles 29:23
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for being my guest today. I really appreciate it. And I think it's been a great addition to the conversation around near bound marketing. Thanks for being our guest today, man. Thanks.

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